I think Prude got this one all wrong.

If your spouse dies -- especially one you loved and were married to for many years -- you have a right to keep pictures of that person up forever. If a new person you develop a romantic relationship with can't deal with that, they are bad news. Anyone who gets involved with a widow or widower and demands they remove their pictures is an insecure narcissistic fool.

The dad, for not seeing what it means to his daughter, seems to be quite dense.

The daughter deserves far more sympathy, although she probably should have talked to her Dad rather than just put the photos back up. But if my father -- who was married to my mom for 35 years before she died -- took down the photos of my mom it would be hurtful to me and my siblings beyond belief. I have no problem with him dating -- in fact I encourage it -- or even remarrying, but those pictures of my mom, in their house, with our family, are as sacred as gets -- and for him to put them away would be the most painful thing he could possibly do to his kids.

henryd:

If your spouse dies -- especially one you loved and were married to for many years -- you have a right to keep pictures of that person up forever.

And your new significant other has a right to be bothered by seeing the face of his/her precessor everywhere she/he looks. If you read the letter again, the LW wasn't even really seeing the pictures. They were just simply there. Since he didn't really care and his significant other did, he took the reasonable course of action of doing what she wanted.

henryd:

Anyone who gets involved with a widow or widower and demands they remove their pictures is an insecure narcissistic fool.

She didn't demand that he remove the photos. She stated, "the photos of my late wife hanging up in the house made her feel uncomfortable and second-best", which is an entirely different matter. She communicated how she felt, and the LW decided that the way to fix that was to remove all the pictures of his late wife and put pictures of the girlfriend up instead. Maybe he could have simply swapped some photos. Maybe he could've removed all pictures. Maybe he could have put up pictures of wildlife, or his kids/grandkids, etc. But HE decided the best course of action would be to take all the pictures down.

henryd:

The dad, for not seeing what it means to his daughter, seems to be quite dense.

No, it's the daughter who is dense. She seems to feel that she has partial ownership of his house simply by virtue of being his daughter. She doesn't get to decide what pictures he hangs in his house. If the pictures meant that much to her, she should have accepted them to hang up in her own house.

henryd:

But if my father -- who was married to my mom for 35 years before she died -- took down the photos of my mom it would be hurtful to me and my siblings beyond belief. ...but those pictures of my mom, in their house, with our family, are as sacred as gets -- and for him to put them away would be the most painful thing he could possibly do to his kids.

Such melodrama! Those are sacred pictures that need to stay up in your house so we can worship at the shine of mom and pretend that life doesn't move on. If this is the most painful thing you can imagine a parent doing to his or her kids, you must have lived an extremely sheltered life.

In any case, one thing that people need to accept is that our parents are their own people and get to live their own lives. I wouldn't want my mom telling me which pictures I was allowed to hang or not hang in my house, so why should I get to tell her which pictures she should hang in her house?

henryd, I don't think anyone (including the girlfriend) was suggesting taking down all of the photos of the previous wife. But it sounds like there were quite a few. And if you think, for a minute, that a significant other doesn't have a right to at least ask that some be taken down and replaced (you know, like say in the bedroom, overlooking the bed from the dresser, the huge 3' x 2' above-mantel art print, etc.) then you don't truly believe the dad has the right to date anyone else--except the memory of the dead mom. And just so you know, it's not mom's house. Or the daughter's. It's dad's. Some photos are fine and even healthy. A museum is not. At all.

I just watched Lolita the other night (yes, again, so what?) and the new Mrs. Humbert Humbert kept a picture of her late husband up in the bedroom above his ash urn. Mr. Humbert had to perform the marital act with the late husband glaring at him from the wall.

Hey, henry, is your dad allowed to move out of the house?

Dead people can't own property. That makes it HIS house. That would be YOUR FATHER'S house. He can do what he wants in HIS house. He can sell it. He can redecorate it. He can turn it into a brothel if he wants to, because it's HIS house.

You have your own house. Do what the fuck you want in it. Your father probably doesn't care. That's because he understands that it's YOUR house.

YOU don't get to decide what goes on in YOUR FATHER'S house.

You and your siblings don't seem to realize that slavery is illegal. Your father is an adult with all his marbles, which makes him his own person and he doesn't need your permission to do anything.

Sounds like someone needs to take you over his knee. Or at least take away the keys to HIS house.

I understand that you're hurting, but the problem is really that in trying to do what two women want him to do (diametrically opposed women) the man seems to not be able to figure out what HE wants to do. While your assessment of the new lady may be spot on, the fact is, a guy with such teensy ability to navigate his own needs, much less stand up for them, is liable to be preyed on by anybody, even his daughter.

Who was the poster who said the guy's dead wife was probably a ball-buster, too? What that person said.

The reply by physics girl sounds like it's written by the dad's obnoxious girlfriend.

"If this is the most painful thing you can imagine a parent doing to his or her kids, you must have lived an extremely sheltered life."

But if I lost my wife, I would completely understand how important pictures of their mother in our house would be to our kids. If I dated a widow, I would have enough respect for the widow's kids to respect the memories of their mother. This is just human decency.

"In any case, one thing that people need to accept is that our parents are their own people and get to live their own lives. I wouldn't want my mom telling me which pictures I was allowed to hang or not hang in my house, so why should I get to tell her which pictures she should hang in her house?"

It's not about dictating what a parent does. It's about the parent understanding that something is incredibly important to his/her kids and someone dating the survinv parent getting that. If the choice for the dad is between respecting your child's love for their parent or giving into the needs of a selfish girlfriend in capable of empathy -- it's a no brainer.

henryd:

If the choice for the dad is between respecting your child's love for their parent or giving into the needs of a selfish girlfriend in capable of empathy -- it's a no brainer.

If the choice for the dad is between valuing the woman he currently loves and is building a future with, (who in all likelihood probably helped dad heal from the loss of his wife quite a bit) and a manipulative, immature shrew of a daughter who wants her father to be miserable--it's a no brainer.

See, see, I can do it too!

It's been six years man. You gotta move on sometime and keeping a shrine that reminds you every day of what you've lost is not the best way to do that. The letter even said he offered the pics to his daughter and she refused, so it's clearly not about being respectful to his late wife's memory to her. She wants her mommy on her terms, the spoiled brat. I just hear her whining, a la Veruca Salt, "But daddy, I want it NOW!"

At the same time, if the new lady is all, "Your wife's pictures make me feel second best. REMOVE THEM ALL or I NEVER EVER visit you," that seems problematic to me, too.

People, let's not assume the daughter is the only knucklehead in this equation.

I'm at a loss as to how you derive his inability to make decisions? Has it occured to you that on this particular subject he doesn't care whether the pictures are in a box or on the wall?

My mom recently went through this and the most important thing was that she had her own space rather than getting rid of the previous completely. I still think they should move as there's issues aside from the pictures on the walls, but both my family and his are closely bound so they had the chance to discuss this with his kids first. Heck, his daughter even asked me how I would feel under those circumstances.

Funny thing though when he first wanted to move his kids weren't happy, then he found work (a palletable reason as opposed to starting a new relationship which is an unpalleteable reason) and my mom didn't want to leave the state, because of her kids and grandkids.

What he needs to do is sit them both down and talk to them both in the same room. Which incidentily might be the last thing he wants to do because they will both try to crucify him for not picking a side. If he's emotionally literate he can explain that he was ready to put some pictures up, probably around the same time he was ready to start dating. He cares about his daughter though and doesn't want to appear insensitve to her needs either. Telling the both of them that he doesn't care is just going to piss the both of them off, whether it's the truth or not, but I'm willing to bet that it's NOT his problem.

henryd:

But if I lost my wife, I would completely understand how important pictures of their mother in our house would be to our kids.

I fail to see why the pictures being in your house would be any more important than those pictures being located at your children's houses. If my mother were to die, I'd be very sad. Whether my dad had a pictorial shrine to her in his house or not would make no difference. As long as the pictures are kept so that they can be viewed, I see no reason they absolutely have to be displayed.

henryd:

If I dated a widow, I would have enough respect for the widow's kids to respect the memories of their mother. This is just human decency.

So far, all the LW's girlfriend did was say that all the pictures of his late wife made her uncomfortable. And I have to admit, if there were pictures of my husband's ex-girlfriends up around the house, it would make me a bit uncomfortable too. The LW was the one who decided that the appropriate measure was to remove those pictures and replace them with pictures of his girlfriend. It probably was a more extreme measure than what the girlfriend requested, but it sounds like the LW isn't a picture sort of person.

henryd:

It's not about dictating what a parent does. It's about the parent understanding that something is incredibly important to his/her kids

If the pictures were important, the daughter would've hung them in her house. What she is really saying is that she doesn't want things to change, and taking down pictures of her mother indicates that her mother really is dead and gone. It's understandable, but you can not change what is and you can not expect other people to live in the past because it is what makes you more comfortable.

henryd:

If the choice for the dad is between respecting your child's love for their parent or giving into the needs of a selfish girlfriend in capable of empathy -- it's a no brainer.

Oh come on, you're making her seem like the wicked witch of the west and you're making the daughter out to be a pure saint. There is nothing to indicate that your interpretation has any validity at all. The LW and his girlfriend have been dating for *2* years. She made no mention of the pictures in that time. This does show that she probably understands the situation. But, I can imagine that after two years she may wonder whether the relationship is going somewhere, or whether the LW is simply pretending she is his late wife and who she is isn't important.

The daughter isn't acting in a loving manner, either. First of all, she rearranged her father's house to suit her tastes without any regard for what he may want. Secondly, she feels that she should dictate how things are in his house. Thirdly, were it really about the pictures, she'd have accepted them and hung them in her own house. She's throwing a childish temper tantrum because her life isn't going the way she wants it, and she doesn't seem to care how this may affect the life her father is trying to rebuild.

SpaceCadet:

if the new lady is all, "Your wife's pictures make me feel second best. REMOVE THEM ALL or I NEVER EVER visit you," that seems problematic to me, too.

"she told me the photos of my late wife hanging up in the house made her feel uncomfortable and second-best. I didn't even notice them anymore, so I took the photos down "

Sounds like the complete removal of the pictures was the LW's idea, not his girlfriend's. She might have simply meant that there were absolutely no pictures of her, and quite a lot of the late wife and it made her feel like she was a place holder. It's a fairly reasonable feeling to have.

I can also see why a person wouldn't visit her SO if her SO's child has decided the relationship shouldn't continue and the SO let's the child get her way. Personally, if I came home and discovered one of my family members had broken in to rearrange my stuff, I'd be livid. If the pictures are still up without him having said anything to the daughter, then the LW has basically said, "I will allow my family to disrespect you."

Of course, it may be that the girlfriend is a bit more hysterical than she needs to be, but I definitely think the daughter is the biggest knucklehead in this equation. The LW ranks up there as well....

SpaceCadet:

At the same time, if the new lady is all, "Your wife's pictures make me feel second best. REMOVE THEM ALL or I NEVER EVER visit you," that seems problematic to me, too.

People, let's not assume the daughter is the only knucklehead in this equation.

Even if the girlfriend is being an a-hole the daughter is being a knucklehead. It is never ok to walk into a home you don't live in and start rearranging the pictures. I think it would have been perfectly fine if the daughter had asked about the pictures or had mentioned that the change had bothered her. But she didn't she went into his home when he was not there and took down photos and put different ones up without ever talking to him about it. That action, imo, is a knuckledheaded action.

The right thing to do, IMO, would have been to say to the daugher,

"look, we both made a mistake. You should not have put the pictures back up, but I should not have removed them, as that was incredibly disrespectful to your mothers memory. So I'm going to leave them up now. We both made a mistake, so let's call it even"

Then, to his girlfriend, who refused to go in the house, "look, I loved my wife and if she hadn't died I'd still be with her. YOU are not competing with her. I will always love her and you need to respect that. This also goes for my kids. You are not in competition with her. She raised them and gave her life to them. The least I can do is keep up her photos and family portraits as that is a life I am proud of an want to remember. Now, I love you too and I'd like to place some photos of us and of just you in the house -- in addition to the others. Now If you're not comfortable with this, with my wife and our family portraits, then you don't respect me and who I am -- it's time for you to go."

Henry

...and then, after that, get real used to emotional and physical masturbation. 'Cause that lack of any other stimulation you're getting, Henry, will be coming from the dead wife's photos.