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One for the jingoists and the morons.
by Sawbones
+9/-1 Reply

You know who you are. Clamoring for more support of Iranian dissenters, claiming that we are betraying our values by remaining apart from the Iranians' domestic unrest. For you:

"It's the nukes, stupid."

That is about as concise an answer as you can get for why Obama isn't publicly supporting Iranian domestic unrest. It's just a matter of being able to weigh the comparative importance of different goals, the chances of success of each, and the areas in which those goals are compatible or mutually contradictory.

Avoiding a nuclear-armed Iran takes precedence over encouraging genuine Iranian democracy, and it's a no-brainer. An Iranian state in possession of nuclear weapons would be a potential threat to the lives of U.S. citizens and those of our allies (this assumes that Ahmadinejad means what he says about erasing Israel, something that may or may not be hot air, but I don't think we have the luxury of assuming it's a bluff). An Iranian state that allows its citizens a true democratic voice may or may not be functionally any different from the standpoint of U.S. interests, as we have seen from the results of democratic elections in Gaza. A goal whose achievement will bring benefits takes priority over one which may or may not do so.

The second point is probably a wash. Our ability to push Iran toward genuine democracy by any outside action is probably close to zero. Encouraging dissidents would make us feel good about ourselves, but the chances that this will be successful in forcing a change are essentially a roll of the dice - really, no better than the chances that honest negotiation and dialogue will convince the Iranians to forego the pursuit of nuclear weapons. "But of course they won't give up on nuclear weapons - they are a bunch of crazy Muslim fundamentalists," I can hear the squawkers yammering already. Possible. But also possibly not; this Iranian regime has never been treated as anything other than an irrevocable enemy. A reasonable person would admit that it is at least possible that Iran's actions to this point are those of a nation that feels threatened by a stronger power and is trying to discourage American adventurism (yes, it's also possible that they are just plain crazy/stupid).

And as for the last criterion, the two goals here are almost certainly contradictory. American meddling in the election results is guaranteed to produce a harder line from Ahmadinejad's government regarding negotiations over nuclear arms; if another nation already invaded the guy next door because he was an oppressive dictator, and that nation has indicated that it sees you the same way, wouldn't you assume that you were next? And wouldn't you look for the best available means of deterring a similar operation? Even if the dissidents were successful after U.S. encouragement, there isn't a high likelihood that either a) Mousavi would be significantly more agreeable toward the U.S. (remember, he was approved for the elections by the same mullahs), or b) Iranians won't resent U.S. intrusion into their politics anyway. And any of those outcomes makes a resolution of the more urgent issue, the avoidance of a nuclear Iran, less likely.

Kudos to our president for conducting foreign policy like a grown-up. His chosen course of action may be successful, and it may not, but at least he's pursuing the right course and for the right reasons. Here's hoping that he can hold his own against the vast echo chamber that seems to be arraying itself against him.

agree
by Isonomist

For us as a nation to step into the political process of any other country is a major mistake. And one we've made in Iran before, to disastrous results. We would only make matters worse for the people we'd like to support, and there is no indication that Mosavi is much better than Ahmedinejad. It's already clear he's all for the nukes, and he's not looking to rid the country of mullahs and institute complete religious freedom or anything.

It's none of our business, and I'm shocked that a real conservative would argue otherwise. Haven't we learned not to nation-build? It's the same lesson over and over.

Stop making sense.
by Woolley
You are dousing the flames in the hearts of all true American Patriots by admitting that we are impotent in these matters and likely to create a gigantic FUBAR if we meddle yet again in the Middle East. I know you are a doctor but please, stick to your specialty and leave the foreign policy decisions to experienced folks like McCain and Palin. My lord, have you lost your marbles?
But see, you're sane, intelligent, & Reality-Based. eom
by tartuffe

Re: One for the jingoists and the morons.
by LaurieAnnM

Incorrect, Mr Bones. If Eisenhower had helped Hungary after WW2 when they looked to us for support in their bid against Communism they well would have better off far sooner.

You haven't much faith do you?

You are saying that Obama cannot
by Gatewood
competently multitask? You are stating that supporting the protests occurring in Iran would so utterly exhaust his strength that he could not thereafter deal with the Iranians on the nuclear front? Wow! Then why did you elect this hot house flower in the first place?

The Iranian government leaders do not want to abandon their nuclear ambitions and they will STILL not want to abandon them no matter how jucily Obama sucks up to them. So he has utterly nothing to lose BY endorsing this incipient pimple of a revolution.

Support the rioters and then spit in the Iranian government’s eye and tell the rat bastards that they ARE NOT going to be allowed to have nuclear weapons. How hard is that?

Next time have the sense to elect a real president.

Oh, and by the way, I can’t wait for you to begin justifying terrorists being terrorists next.

My Iranian friend asked me to share this.
by DragonTat2
**A Very Trusted and smart friend of mine has just sent this message out from Tehran. Please do write to congress and tell them not to get involved! PLEASE SHARE**

BEGIN NOTE

I am sure all of you are aware of the current situation in Iran. I've been meaning to send a mass email to everyone sharing my thoughts on the matter. But frankly I don't know how to tackle the subject and present a fair perspective on the events taking place. I just hope that basic human rights are observed and peaceful protests are not met with violent acts of vigilante by any one group or organization associated with either one side. My commentary will have to wait for a perspective only time can give me. For now I am but one observer and the complexity of the drama as it unfolds is too much for me to digest.

That said, I have a favor to ask of you. There is something you can do if you're in the States to help. You can call your congress men and women, your senators and governors and demand that they don't interfere in Iran. President Obama has been handling the situation wonderfully. Last thing he wants is to appear to be meddling in Iran's internal affairs. Because then the people in the far right will connect the home-grown Green Uprising movement to America and that will be the end of the movement as we know it. With that excuse they will manage to suppress all opposition and arrest and possibly kill dissident voices. Unfortunately the neo-conservatives think eight years of being in power wasn't enough to ruin the world, so they are now calling for support of Iranian dissidents. This is VERY DANGEROUS.

For example Rep. Pence and some Republican leaders are to hold a press conference supporting Iranian dissidents today (Thursday, June 18th, 2009) at 1:45 p.m. at the House Radio/TV Gallery, H-321 in the Capitol in Washington D.C. If you're in the DC area, PLEASE go protest and have your voices heard. I am beginning to think that all the evil in the world is done by those in the far right in any country who are always in favor of war, not peace, conflict, not dialogue and fear, not hope. You probably can't stop this one event from taking place, but from now on, stay active in condemning any politician who is not in line with President Obama who wants to meddle in Iranian politics. Have them let the Iranian people fight their own fight for their own rights in their own country. Remind them that any outside threat or interference will be damaging and eight years of failed Bush policy is a clear example of that approach.

END NOTE
Well, actually, a real conservative WOULDN'T argue otherwise
by tartuffe

Re:Gatewood Prof leads Iran Blitz! Iranian Am wins US EMB
by uncommOner

baa hum bug- No more ransoms CRA Ghandhi -Bayard Rustin UAW(owns bankrupted Colt manufacturing Co No guns to Amers) Fem white light nuke 3 mile island style --No more Ransoms using US Courts under seige by muslims in american custumes and passports and EDU Free minority Fem grants!

Iranian American Businessman wins US lawsuit (even after Carter's Wright Edelman rodham--interns) baptists stole Amer Schools and sowed Amer daughters & sons)and takes back US Embassy and creates a hate USA Museum--Today more ghandhi pieceful Demos demanding AID from taxpayers!

and GI Jane Turner Un Foundation Fem brigades White light blue prints victims/victimizers!

hmm

<link>

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Your post is irrelevant.
by PumpkinSeed
Not that I disagree, and I could even add that if we intervene on the eventual losing side, it makes Obama and America look even worst. The real question is after the recent events, does it look like we are any closer to achieving the goal of a non-nuclear Iran? Maybe too early to call, but anything less than a Mousavi victory with a subsequent move by the Iranians to improve relations with the West leads me to believe the Mullahs are determined to obtain a nuclear capability no matter what. And while I don't want to, I am warming to the idea of letting the Israelis make a strike.
Horseshit
by JackDallas

He should be supporting the dissenters. My feeling is that the sonofabitch is a Muslim at heart and will not do anything to upset the Mullahs.

Obama is not on our side.

Jack

Re:U get paid for this Prof? Ghandhi pieceful splits work I
by uncommOner

whats not in the blitz news for green Fem islam arrabic lawsuits after ransoms US courts repay Iranian American hate monger spit in ya taxpayers face Carters Baptists live in UCC INC!

wrighteous and righteous--joint sopusal ventures for Green sufferager AID!

hmm

no reply required-- The shoe has fallen on ya toe!

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The far right....
by Woolley
I have a good friend in Islamabad and he keeps me in the loop in PK and India politics. He says the same thing as your buddy here. The Boltons of this world are the war mongers, they ooze self-righteousness and long for personal honor like some Klingon captain....
Re: Horseshit bullshit & chicken shoo! India divided into 4
by uncommOner

US ransoms to Iran are notoriusly baptist born again religious oriented using even our own courts to award Iranians with US credientials moeny and US embassy lands! Green or blk or wht students =Chicago 8 trials repeats

Swiss Family Robinson! Ask Rabbi Funnye--Esq of HC michelles 1st cousin who's on first!

Rahm has multiple citizenships

Is-Ra-Eli prostitute rings have pierced our Homeland Security almost given to muslim married chief of NYC police kerik and they have ousted Two USA Governors with Impunity and immunity as UN linkages!

hmm

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could you please tell me
by Isonomist
and this is not in any way a joke or sarcastic, because I'd truly like to know, if you know, what makes you believe Mosavi has any interest in ending the Iranian push for nuclear power? Everything I've read about him from Iranians in and outside Iran, says that he is all for it, and that he's more or less just like Ahmedinejad, except a little better on social freedoms, and less embarassingly anti-West, and anti-Jewish.
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