Is it really hard to understand that lots of people simply can't do complicated math? You might as well ask these people to decipher hieroglyphics. You can't? Well then you must be a illiterate lazy jackass! these people should just feel lucky that they can do it. They'll all be making more money than everyone else anyways.

The second person, the physicist, cracked me up. No one brags about illiteracy? If I had a nickel for every time someone's told me grammar and spelling are beyond them...

Both people brought up a valid point. The subject might be hard, it's not THAT hard. Any college student should be able to do calculus. It's not restricted to math, a lot of people dismiss subjects with a "Oh, I'd never be albe to do THAT!"

Yes you would, if you worked at it. That's the answer I give people when they ask me what I did over the weekend and I tell them I biked 50 miles on Sunday.

BTW, Emily must be as ignorant at mechanics as she is at mathmatics. Good luck at finding a carburetor on a modern automobile engine.

I worked for some years in a university in a position in which I helped people with their writing. I worked with people in all sorts of fields, though no one in advanced math, though a friend of mine was getting a PhD, writing on something mind-boggling about set theory and topology. Most of us working in these positions, helping guide stuff toward publication, were able to talk about the work our clients were doing.

But there were people--with PhDs, MAs--who did this thing of "oh, poor old me don't know nuthing bout no mathemarithmetic." And it was obviously a dismissal. And I've seen it out in the general public too, this sort of "I can't wrap my head around it" statement that is a thinly veiled "I can't be bothered and no one sane would be." It does strike me as the product of insecurity, so the advice to offer a reasonable explanation of the material still is quite valuable.

But I am annoyed that folks would dismiss these two mathematics people as "asses." If you can't take my experience nor theirs as valid, seeing it as anecdotal perhaps, go read the classic Hofstader book Anti-Intellectualism in America.

And for the intellectual types: DO BOTHER. Rehearse explanations of your field in the shower and on walks. It will help you to no end in everyday life and in the job search. I don't know how many times various committees have asked me to explain in plain, non-jargonized English what exactly it is I study and why and how it's relevant to the 18-21 year old students I'll encounter in my teaching. You'll go from being the boring nerd to the very interesting person. Trust me.

As an accounting major, I'm thrilled that there's such cultural cachet attached to sucking at math. If everyone sucks at math, that means fewer people who think they've got the chops to become accountants, which means supply and demand takes over and I get paid more, which means I can pay off student loans, let my wife quit her job, and make her happy because she gets to go to art school or become a stay-at-home mom (or both, doing art at home while the kids are in school). If everyone made an effort to be good at math, it'd get in my way of accomplishing my hopes and dreams in life. So please! Become dependent on nerds to add two plus two!

Don't worry; the problem doesn't apply to you: mathematics and arithmetic aren't the same thing.

But many people are convinced that accounting requires a lot of mathematics, so it still applies.

I didn't see this thread when I posted my own, so I'll quickly reiterate. Maybe people are quick to confess their math failings precisely because they think math is important enough that they should care about their failings. Where failings in other subjects are 'o.k.'.

matheo:

Don't worry; the problem doesn't apply to you: mathematics and arithmetic aren't the same thing.

Indeed. Throughout school and in my professional life I find I'm good at mathematics (the reasoning, the manipulation of equations, the construction of mathematical approaches to real life problems, etc.) but I'm lousy at calculating (bad with numbers, make frequent errors). This has been one of the harder parts of moving from physics to engineering. I now have to put actual numbers into the equations I use, instead of just stopping once I have the right equation.

posty:

But many people are convinced that accounting requires a lot of mathematics, so it still applies.

My point exactly. People don't need to know that anyone with a pocket calculator and the brains of a fast-food employee can do bookkeeping and taxes. If they're scared of anything involving numbers, they won't go into the field.

It's really, honestly THAT difficult. You might as well try and make my read Russian as understand even what you would consider fairly simple math. I just don't process things in a way that allows it to make sense to me.

Now I CAN make a mean angel food cake and if you want an elegant dinner for six, I can not only make the dinner, but knock off some designer gowns for the ladies to wear..... If necessary, I can make the dinnerware and serving pieces, too. I happen to think those are all childishly easy tasks.

What? You can't do them? You must be a hopelessly cack-handed twit, then!

MessyONE:

It's really, honestly THAT difficult. You might as well try and make my read Russian as understand even what you would consider fairly simple math.

No Messy, it's not THAT difficult. You might not be the best ever, but you could learn if you tried. No one is born knowing Calculus, or reading Russian, or being a gourmet cook. They are all learned. You could teach me to make a decent angel food cake, maybe not as good as yours, but decent enough to eat. The math major is not dismissing other people as dolts because they don't understand his(?) subject, they are dismissing his subject as being so arcane that's it's not worth discussing.

It's ironic that the skills you listed (cooking, sewing) are ones that typically appeal to those with mathematical, organized minds. Perhaps you sell yourself short, perhaps your teachers weren't much good (and before everyone jumps me for bashing teachers, I AM one), but I suspect you could easily handle math through algebra and geometry, which would actually enhance your other skills, too.

MessyONE:

What? You can't do them? You must be a hopelessly cack-handed twit, then!

I don't think he is saying that those who don't understand what he does are idiots, it's the assumption that they could never learn, and the seeming pride that is taken in not being able to do so.

If you talked what you are very good at, my response would not be "I could never do that", it'd be more along the lines that it's impressive that you've done so. The response to "I'm a mechanic" is very different to "I'm a mathematician", even though the two may be equally good at their respective fields.

Oh, you're talking a to g? Sure. I couldn't manage without them in one form or another. THAT wasn't the problem. It was getting into the more complex stuff that damned near killed me. I had tutors....I went to summer school after Grade 12...I had a couple of terrific math teachers.... a couple of foul teachers (and I used to be one, too).... and one of them gave me a "mercy mark" so I could get into university, bless the man.

Cooking, clay... physics and chemistry. I don't pretend to be able to write equations for that stuff, but that's all cooking and clay come down to when you get to the bottom of them. Now, I'm not a functional potter, so I worry less about form than people who make dishes. I figure that if I want dishes, I can go to Crate and Barrel.

Ok. You win. I'm not a total math idiot. You have no idea what a relief that is!