The difference between thee two is that homosexuality is harmless and obesity is not. Harmless both for the individual and for the society. Most fat people, given a choice, would like to lose weight, but I doubt if this is true about gay people.

Once homosexuality is defined as genetic, you'll see a huge push from the religious right to 'cure' people with the gene, especially in the womb. There will be a war on the 'gay gene' once or if they discover it. It will not end the conversation on being gay, it will in fact take it to a higher, even nastier level.

If a fat person isn't hypertensive, what's the serious health problem associated with being fat? On the other hand, HIV seems to be pretty dangerous. I'd be interested in seeing what actually costs society more, homosexuality or obesity. LOL, that data might need close looking at though, as if obesity is now "bad" every cold someone has will be blamed on obesity, whereas "coincidence" may be attributed to the homosexual's health problems in the same situation.

opus512:

Once homosexuality is defined as genetic, you'll see a huge push from the religious right to 'cure' people with the gene, especially in the womb. There will be a war on the 'gay gene' once or if they discover it. It will not end the conversation on being gay, it will in fact take it to a higher, even nastier level.

my suspicion at this point is that it's not a *genetic* disorder, but due to a hormone imbalance in utero. I understand your point though, and am sure if the circumstance is ever found, people could make a blood test and get subsequent abortions, and, of course, some homosexuals will no doubt want to change the hormonal environment for "their" offspring to ensure that they *become* homosexuals.

Life is a tapestry.

fantazja:

The difference between thee two is that homosexuality is harmless and obesity is not. Harmless both for the individual and for the society. Most fat people, given a choice, would like to lose weight, but I doubt if this is true about gay people.

Male homosexuals have a lower life expectancy than obese men do. So I'm curious how you define 'harm'.

And the reason fat people would like to lose weight, but gays are happy as they are is almost exclusively due to varying degrees of societal prejudice. I'm pretty sure gay Iranians want to be straight a lot more than fat Polynesians want to be thin.

fantazja:

Most fat people, given a choice, would like to lose weight,.

I hate to point out the obvious but they DO have a choice. At every single meal.

15 years ago, I was 40lbs overweight. I put down the fork and started exercising. In a delicious (ahem) bit of irony, once I became fit and a regular exerciser, I found I had to eat more than when I was fat and sedentary.

In addition to hypertension, cardiovascular disease (including both heart attack/stroke) there are actually a number of health problems that are directly related to obesity (e.g., Type II diabetes, osteoarthritis, chronic low back pain) and many that are suspected of being related to obesity (e.g., breast cancer, colon cancer).

In terms of dollars, it depends on how you calculate the equation: There are far more obese people who die from diseases related to obesity than homosexual men who die from illnesses related to AIDS. However, in terms of life time treatment consts AIDS probably wins hands down.

However, I hope you are not equating being a gay man with HIV. In the US today the fastest growing population with HIV are heterosexual women. The prevalence of new infections among gay men has been on the decline for some time. Moreover, it isn't being gay (or specifically the sexual act among gay men) that causes HIV, it is a virus that comes (pun intended) along for the ride. Contracting HIV is almost entirely preventable via consistent use of condoms and the practice of safe sex.

Also, and this is sort of left out of the argument, but if we are talking about homosexuality, we are talking about Lesbians too. And, lesbians have lower rates of HIV than any other sexual/sexual orientation group.

HIV is actually on the rise among young male homosexuals. But that's neither here nor there. What sticks, for me, is the definition of "fat." Is "fat" overweight, obese, or morbidly obese?

I'm 5 foot and 1/2 an inch, and weigh anywhere from 115 to 130. By the BMI calculations, I am overweight. However, I don't look it.... and I can do circles around people thin, supposedly "health" people in terms of aerobic activity (also crunches. Push ups off my knees is still a distant dream.) After all, muslce weights more than fat, so by what criteria are we measuring who is "fat" and who is not?

Lastly, I think SOME (I'd wager half to a little over the majority) of people are genetically predispositioned to weighing more. I mean, it's damn evolution; it's easier to get pregnant if you're not aneroxically thin (and why does no one ever mention the health effects of THAT side of the equation?) Yes, some people are overweight because of their sedimentary lifestyles and eating habits. But watching my mother, who has always been athletic, work out 3 days a week for 2 hours, eats healthy, and has thighs like an oxen STILL never lose that paunch around the middle (night shifts really are extremely unhealthy, weight-wise) convinced me that there's gotta be more to this puzzle than we think.

When we talk about overall mortality and its relationship to weight status, it is clearly obesity and morbid obesity that increase your risk of death. In fact, a really well done epidemiological study showed that for middle aged women, having a BMI in the high normal (and maybe even at the low end of overweight) was associated with a lower risk of mortality than being in the normal range or below normal range. In fact, if my memory serves me right, a below normal BMI may have even carried a higher risk of mortality than being obese (don't quote me on the last point though). So, this is very good news for your mother (although whether this generalizes to weight status/mortality for young women isn't clear).

Although I think it is really important to maintain fitness, I think much of our culture's obsession with fat has nothing to do with health and everything to do with fashion/beauty standards. When I lecture to undergrads, I always conclude my lecture on obesity and weight control by cautioning the young women in my class to think twice about dieting if their BMI is in the normal/healthy range. Women need to think about their health more than whether they conform to some bizarre unattainable beauty standard.

re HIV: Crap, you are right! That is what I get for speaking from memory. Incidence among men who have sex with men is indeed increasing. However, so is incidence among heterosexual women.

Bondsman:

If a fat person isn't hypertensive, what's the serious health problem associated with being fat? On the other hand, HIV seems to be pretty dangerous. I'd be interested in seeing what actually costs society more, homosexuality or obesity. LOL, that data might need close looking at though, as if obesity is now "bad" every cold someone has will be blamed on obesity, whereas "coincidence" may be attributed to the homosexual's health problems in the same situation.

you want to look at data...and what would cost society more...? ...as in you need something other than top ten causes of death (after expensive medical treatments trying to save their lives and incurring great costs to society) in this country...let me enlighten you a bit...HIV is not one of them...

...however...8 (the 8 chronic diseases) of them have been shown to have obesity as a primary risk factor...and for the other 2, the obese have greater complications when they are stricken with these (accidents or any trauma and Pneumonia/influenza)...HIV patients represent a small fraction of those who would die from Pneumonia/flu...now is there really a question there....?

...but I guess when you count the economic down turn as an effect of homosexuality...maybe then the costs start to equal out...I mean you all think allowing gays to marry caused it right...? ...post hoc ergo propter hoc and all that...right...?

Not to mention the fact that for a time gay marriage was actually quite a boon for the wedding industry in CA.

...didn't TLC or MTV try to do a series on that...?

couldn't be less entertaining then all the other reality shows.

It will not end the conversation on being gay, it will in fact take it to a higher, even nastier level.

and you'll be even more of a victim than you are now! that is what you live for, or so it seems.

nancyh:

In the US today the fastest growing population with HIV are heterosexual women. .... And, lesbians have lower rates of HIV than any other sexual/sexual orientation group.

I hate to go all feminst here (tongue partly in cheek) but doesn't this mean that, basically, the spread of HIV is men's fault?