The real problem with the Israel-Palestinian conflict is that neither side is really interested in a compromise that involves coexistance with the other. Everyone knows that eventually, they will have to learn to coexist, but the current generation is too vested in the idea that the other will one day just magically disappear.

I believe that this is like the conflict in Northern Ireland. It's going to have to boil for decades until a new generation emerges on both sides that is so sick of the fighting that they are willing to agree to a compromise that divides control of the region. Until then, the only thing the US and the rest of the international community can do is containment.

I have a solution! Give Texas to the Israelis...let them come here and live. They can ethnically cleanse the Texans, eh? Someone should!

Well, the serious answer is that we have two groups of people, both of whom believe that this tiny strip of land about the size of New Jersey has been granted to them exclusively by God, so neither side is interested in a solution that involves them living somewhere else.

The flip answer is that making anyone live in Texas is probably cruel and unusual punishment.

Greatbear452:

The real problem with the Israel-Palestinian conflict is that neither side is really interested in a compromise that involves coexistance with the other. Everyone knows that eventually, they will have to learn to coexist, but the current generation is too vested in the idea that the other will one day just magically disappear.

I believe that this is like the conflict in Northern Ireland. It's going to have to boil for decades until a new generation emerges on both sides that is so sick of the fighting that they are willing to agree to a compromise that divides control of the region. Until then, the only thing the US and the rest of the international community can do is containment.

as somebody said last week (i think on the daily show) everybody can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but nobody can find the tunnel. pretty damn accurate.

Greatbear452:

The real problem with the Israel-Palestinian conflict is that neither side is really interested in a compromise that involves coexistance with the other.

That's a massive overgeneralization. There is Hamas on the one side and the extreme religious right on the other side who present the problem of which you speak. That doesn't mean that the peoples in general aren't interested in a real compromise. Unfortunately both of those groups I mentioned are relatively powerful politically owing to their rigid set of beliefs making for much less infighting. Those in the middle have a more difficult time because their constituencies have more complicated beliefs and emotions that are affected by current circumstance. So one day (metaphorically) you have an Israel that in general not only wants peace but wants to actively pursue it, and another day the Israelis think it's hopeless. That's when the right gets to do their thing. When does that happen? That happens when the Palestinians miss yet another chance to do the right thing themselves.

And then the cycle begins again. Eventually the force of Israel reduces attacks against Israel, Israelis start thinking about peace again, but the Palestinians, still stung and angry about the last attack by Israel and their unimproved (if not worsened) circumstances regain their strength and renew their attacks against Israel.

Ultimately I think the solution has to be on the Palestinian side. Every now and then the Israelis are willing to deal. even if the deal isn't necessarily the best in the world for the Palestinians, it's a hell of a lot better than what they've got or have any hope of getting. The Palestinians in the meantime can't even get any moderate voices heard for fear of reprisals by Hamas. So, it sounds kind of hopeless, but it also is pretty clear to me what has to happen for there to actually be hope: some strong, preferably noncorrupt, and moderate Palestinian group has to build some political power and/or take Hamas apart. Then just wait for Israeli public opinion to swing around again and you'll get a deal (after a few more years of haggling).

There is Hamas on the one side and the extreme religious right on the other side who present the problem of which you speak.

Since those are the people who are calling the shots on both sides, they're the only ones whose opinions truly count.

What you really want is capitulation by the Palestinians based on an Israeli spin cycle/schedule.

It is the Israelis who have all the cards and can deal anytime. I would only agree that the current Palestinian political setup is a mess (with no small thanks to the last US admin and Israel). They have to provide a united seat at the table and Israel must act as an equal party to a negotiation not as an occupier or one that understands they have the carte blanche support of the US govt. anytime they sneeze. I hope this relationship is now being calibrated to encourage movement towards a two state solution.

I agree with you to an extent Greatbear. But in Northern Ireland, the hatred between both sides was, in my opinion, far more intense and visceral. Catholics murdered Protestants and vice versa purely because of their identification with one side or the other. Catholic players who lined out for the Northern Ireland football team were threatened with death by Protestant terror groups, and the problem even spread to Scotland, where affiliation with particular clubs was based almost purely on sectarian grounds.

Obviously there is much anger, distrust and hatred between the Israelis and the Palestinians, but I don't believe that it is as based in sectarianism or ethnicity as it was in Northern Ireland. For example, the Israeli football team is supported by a cross section of society, whilst Arab players and those who identify themselves as Palestinians play in the Israeli league. Also, there seems little hatred of Jews or Israelis per se, on the Palestinian street, but rather an animosity towards a group of people they believe to be oppressing them; similarly, many Israeli Jews employ and work alongside Palestinians on a daily basis. They don't fear and loathe the Palestinians as an ethnic group, but as a people whom they feel under threat from.

All of this is subtly, but significantly, different from the situation in the North where, even after almost 2 decades of peace, many on both sides still distrust the other, and where communities are still physically divided along sectarian lines. Indeed, it offers the best hope for peace in the Middle East. Unfortunately however, politics on both sides is too often hijacked by the extremists. While this continues the desire of the majority for peaceful co-existence will always be frustrated.

Why precisely do Israel and the Palestinians have to be on an equal footing. Israel has been winning war after war for 60 years. How does that make the other side equal?

Never in history have the losers called the shots.

Until you get real, there will be no solution.

The problem is that Islam has been preaching and teaching hatred of Jews particularly, without excluding everyone else who's not Muslim.

The situation is compounded by the fact that the world contains 20 million Jews and about a billion Muslims.

Figure the odds.

The very fact that Israel exists as a successful western style democracy is incomprehensible to Muslims. It must be destroyed in order to bring the world back into balance.

The problem is that Islam has been preaching and teaching hatred of Jews particularly, without excluding everyone else who's not Muslim.

That's one of many predictable excuses that Isra;'s amen corner have used to avoid a political settlement, it could just as easily be argued that Israel have actually had a poloicy of Arab hatred for the last 60 years.

The very fact that Israel exists as a successful western style democracy is incomprehensible to Muslims. It must be destroyed in order to bring the world back into balance.

It's not incomprehensiblebecause it is a myth. Israle is a racist, apartheid state that exists because of massive aid and suppor from the West. 22 Arab states have signed a peace offer to recognize Israel and normalize relations with Israel as per the 1967 border and Israel have cojsistently rejected it becasue their agenda has alwasy been expansion.

"It's not incomprehensiblebecause it is a myth. Israle is a racist, apartheid state that exists because of massive aid and suppor from the West. 22 Arab states have signed a peace offer to recognize Israel and normalize relations with Israel as per the 1967 border and Israel have cojsistently rejected it becasue their agenda has alwasy been expansion."

Yes and how's that expansion working out? Seems that NL considers the distance from San Francisco to Oakland eastward over 40 years as "expansion"!

Again, Arafat had a deal in place in 1999 with Barak and with a Palestinian state and he rejected it. The Palestinians have no one to blame but themselves.

Yes and how's that expansion working out? Seems that NL considers the distance from San Francisco to Oakland eastward over 40 years as "expansion"!

90% of a small piece of land is stil 90%.

Again, Arafat had a deal in place in 1999 with Barak and with a Palestinian state and he rejected it. The Palestinians have no one to blame but themselves.'

Rubbish. Shlomo Ben Ami, Israel's foreign minister at the time said that if he were Arafat, he too would have rejected the offer. Clinton recognized this and organized negotiations at Atab where Arafat and Barak stated that they were on the verge of an agreement and would have reached one had they had nore time.

Barak had to end the negottiations becasue of the upcomming Israel elecetions, which he lost to Shron, whco declared he would susped the pece procedd in formaldehyde and the rest is history.

Thoughtful Ted:

The very fact that Israel exists as a successful western style democracy is incomprehensible to Muslims. It must be destroyed in order to bring the world back into balance.

I think you exaggerate there somewhat Ted. To claim that "Muslims" cannot comprehend "a successful western style democracy" is certainly a gross generalisation, especially considering that Turkey is home to one of the oldest representative democracies in Europe, and Indonesia the third largest in the world. tarring all Muslims with one crude brush is as mistaken as those who claim that Israel alone is responsible for the situation in the Middle East.

Not only that, but the Palestinians had a constituion as early as 1914.

Israel stil lcan't seem to get htie heads around how to create one.