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"Man and the Echo"
by Zeus-Boy
+10 Reply

The poet is dying, presumably, and is thinking back over his life's work. There's only himself in it, so he sets up a classic Wordsworthian 'Expostulation and Reply' plot with his own echo. This Yeats poem is famous for a certain line [bolded], and it was this line gave Auden the pivot upon which to turn the theme of his famous elegy, 'In Memory of W.B. Yeats':

Man. In a cleft that's christened Alt
Under broken stone I halt
At the bottom of a pit
That broad noon has never lit,
And shout a secret to the stone.
All that I have said and done,
Now that I am old and ill,
Turns into a question till
I lie awake night after night
And never get the answers right.
Did that play of mine send out
Certain men the English shot?
Did words of mine put too great strain
On that woman's reeling brain?
Could my spoken words have checked
That whereby a house lay wrecked?
And all seems evil until I
Sleepless would lie down and die.

Echo. Lie down and die.

Of course the poet does eventually lie down and die. I love the ending of this poem: something feral intrudes on his thought, and distracts it, and that in itself is a kind of compelling reply, really, the only response to art, life --

Up there some hawk or owl has struck,
Dropping out of sky or rock,
A stricken rabbit is crying out,
And its cry distracts my thought.

What has always interested me about Yeats' poem was the sheer naivety of his arrogance to believe that a play or poem of his could influence or direct the course of history. I can't imagine a play or poem so captivating the heart of zealot that he'd be willing to take up arms and risk his life for its sake. Auden, as you know, had a good answer for Yeats. The second stanza of his elegy articulates beautifully my own position on the historical agency which poetry is not:

You were silly like us; your gift survived it all:
The parish of rich women, physical decay,
Yourself. Mad Ireland hurt you into poetry.
Now Ireland has her madness and her weather still,
For poetry makes nothing happen: it survives
In the valley of its making where executives
Would never want to tamper, flows on south
From ranches of isolation and the busy griefs,
Raw towns that we believe and die in; it survives,
A way of happening, a mouth.

Truly a stunning riposte, as well as a powerful aesthetic manifesto. And poetry does indeed make nothing happen, though it is itself a way of happening. And yet poets continue to 'carve in the smithy of their souls the consciousness of their people'. But, if poetry makes nothing happen, then literary criticism makes even less happen. I cannot imagine a sincere, authentic artist paying the blindest bit of regard to what any critic might have to say. Shelley overstated the effect the vituperative Edinburgh Review had on Keats, but he did that for dramatic effect. Keats knew what his purpose was and kept his eye firmly fixed on it. I suppose it comes down to second bests, really, and our wanting to leave our mark. The most classic case of all was Bruno Schulz's response to Witold Gombrowicz who had tried to lure him away from his art into answering his critics: Schulz answer was to preserve the dignity of his craft at all costs, be true to it at all costs. It got him killed on the street of the Lodz ghetto, but the Nazi bullet could not kill the sacred integrity of his art.

Re: "Man and the Echo"
by HeWhoMustDie
yeah - poetry's only good for like, when space shuttles blow up.
Re: "Man and the Echo"
by Camille Claudel

I cannot imagine a sincere, authentic artist paying the blindest bit of regard to what any critic might have to say.

Find me the artist that isn't also a critic of artists......

Re: "Man and the Echo"
by apollonius...

this deep insidious quest that I alone

who suffers such would

know best

is like the ancient thorn whose painful nature is

the sweet request

of the one supporting this

entire fucking mess...

Probably could have done better were the audience more worthy; excluding you but then I have never understood what you were doing here in the first place. I have an agenda here. The jury is still out on you.

Re: "Man and the Echo"
by apollonius...

You are the poster boy for the worst piece of shit in this location.

You could have done better, maybe... but God saw fit to dry your well (not that you had one) so now you can only mock your betters and that includes the stray dogs down the street. Never fear... it is on you that they will dine.

Re: "Man and the Echo"
by JackDallas

Inviting the muse

is just a ruse

that one must choose

when he wants to amuse

or else he will lose

captured by booze

and end up with the blues

and the urge to ooze

Doggeral

Jack

come to think of it
by Isonomist
It's not that terribly unusual to find an artist who's incensed by his critics and secretly wants to win them over just to rub their faces in whatever it was the critics said that pissed the artist off.
hee hee
by ich liebe katzen
schmoggeral doggerel. (meow)
Re: hee hee
by HeWhoMustDie

Ellen - would you consider a small favor?

Dress up like Marlene in Blue Angel.

Or Madeline Kahn singing "I'm so tired" - same/same.

Agreed. Talent, and consciousness thereof,
by Inkberrow
guarantees a keen hierarchical sensibility both where oneself and others are concerned. Past, present, and future: the anxiety of influence, then contemporary rivals, then the attention to legacy. For instance, Milton's first major poem, "Lycidas", ostensibly an elegy for a fallen colleague, was in fact his own rather self-conscious rumination concerning the artist's fame and enduring legacy. The tide of critical opinion, however arbitrary and capricious---and dead wrong---it may seems at times, is inseperable from this preoccupation.
Re: Agreed. Talent, and consciousness thereof,
by HeWhoMustDie

After Milton went blind, he insisted that his daughters read to him, a lot.

It put a big crimp in their social lives.

But what are chattel for, after all ?

Re: "Man and the Echo"
by apollonius...
You have a career waiting for you at Hallmark Cards but I can assure with absolute certainty that immortality will elude you. You won't even be remembered in your own time and you certainly won't survive beyond it. You had a certain pedestrian ability once (not in poetry; not ever) but God took that away. I watched it happen. The ability to make words sing is a gift conferred. It is not a learned ability and even with endless application and effort it will not show if the muse is displeased. The muse is very selective with her gifts. First of all she requires a contrite heart and a capacity for awe. It is doubly damned when the latter is applied to ones own self.
well obviously,
by Camille Claudel

given ZB's quotes, the general point was there - so surprising to hear his take (to an extent).

Artists generally put on the facade of not caring - and have built in defenses to appear to not care; and may even be able to convince themselves that they don't care. But artists are generally far more sensitive to such criticism than the rest of us - because professional criticism, in these cases, is personal.

Sure - we can all dismiss the occasional awful critic.

Still - the difference between artist and art critic is often slight. Noel Coward as an artist vs. Noel Coward the critic - hard not to see his art in his criticism.

It depends
by ducadmo

There is a difference between performing artists and artists who create a work.

Performing artists are bound to an audience by the very nature of performing and it has been my experience that to such people a critic is no more no less than a member of that audience. I'll take applause over critical acclamation any day.

Artists who create a work of their own and the work is viewed on its own generally don't seem to much care about critical analysis. Such labor, born of love or no, is often not much different than having a bowel movement - sometimes it just feels good to finally get it out and be able to move on.

The artists with whom I have the most sympathy are those who compose works for performing artists; composers, playwrights, and choreographers. Your work is never yours alone, it is only brought to life by others and therefore seldom if ever reaches the imagined potential. Depending on the writer, the tension in this love/hate relationship between writers and the performers often far outweighs input from mere observers of the process. A lot of modern music is written for musicians not audiences.

thinking of Jackson Pollock,
by Camille Claudel

ego building as they sung his praise, destructive when they didn't.

The meme of the artist that believes in the praise he receives and turns it into something self-destructive is an old one.

The meme of the artist who buys into the criticism and gets tormented by it, is an old one too.

But there is something to what ZB said - I think though that it is a psychological defense, rather than a lack of caring.

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