I won't do it because it's wrong. And I'll prosecute anyone caught doing it because it's illegal. We're either better than they are or we're not. I'm betting we are.

The engine is in and of itself far too imperfect to punish this particular thing with impunity. Obama cannot withstand the retaliation that it would bring...too messy, too expensive, too unfocused in the midst of all that we have to deal with now.

On the other hand if they could dig up some evidence that 9-11 was an inside job...then I say go for the firing squad and skip the trial....now there's something worth going after.

but this ain't it. We didn't enter into these agreements lightly and we've executed people for violating them. These conventions were well known, widely respected and purposeful. The decision to violate them was a deceitful one and carried with it the clear jeopardy of one day being held accountable if discovered. We do not negotiate these things in reverse. They knew what they were doing when they did it and now the jig is up. The balance of your post is woolgathering.

Your daughter was held by kidnappers who might do her in, and you held captive one of the kidnappers where it is very likely he would come forth with valuable information in rescuing her through various forms of "humane" torture? Is it ethical to do it? Would you?

Just because war may be more impersonal to you than that, it has the same principles at heart when dealing with a sinister force. Nothing is so simple as you suggest.

I'm not saying above the law....I am saying maybe unreachable and probably not doable...that's all. It may well be a way to go back into the 9-11 commission and review the evidence, if it is then I say do it. But if their final end is to discover wrongdoing at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib....I think they're in for ten years of chasing their tails.

this ain't my daughter. these are the powers we are being asked to cede to the state, bucko, not some crime drama for you to daydream about. this is the reason we're here in the new world to begin with. what I as an individual may do (and accept the consequences for doing) are quite different to those things I may enfranchise the state to do. but we've been all through this so talking with you about it is beside the point. these things are AGAINST the law. is this a concept with which you have trouble? people in your government took it upon themselves to BREAK the law and bet the come line that they'd be able to sufficiently confuse the issue so as not to be held accountable if they were caught. I don't have a problem with someone breaking the law if they think they must as long as they accept that they will be held accountable for it if they're found out. why do you think they were trying so hard to keep this all a secret? if it was so easily demonstrated to be necessary and LEGAL them why the secrecy? because they knew better. and now it's time to pay the piper. we would (and have) insist(ed) on the head of a foreign offender.

You are the one who said it was all so simple, not me. You are the one who is speaking of torture being wrong to use for the state under any circumstances, not me. Don’t use the Bush waterboarding example to prove your larger point, that is not the issue it’s diversionary.

Torture is a generic word and it is already problematic. Yes I support torture and No I do not support it. Deal with that factual statement. But in time of war against an evil empire like Germany or Japan, yes, I support more severe forms of torture to save the lives of many allied troops or civilians. All too often liberal forms of the higher moral ground reeks of sanctimonious b.s. in order to look the caring one.

.

The spooks-spiks-kikes-micks-kraut­s-gooks-limeys-hadjis-commie-r­ed-bastards. Those guys.

but you and I both know the meaning of we do it because 'they' do it. so we both know what I meant by 'those guys'. so fuck off.

from the cave, Ryerson.

What, it is illegal to incinerate alive an enemy combatant? You won't do it?

Ok, get in there and stab the miserable bastard in the belly with your bayonet.

What's that? Speak up, I can't hear you, Mr Bogus.

Do I have to worry about you every night, Skep? IF you're still at the VFW or the Legion, please give the barmain/barkeep your keys !!! We really don't want to lose you here.

how to play nice I'll give you the pin when I get back. In the meantime don't let go, eh.

Ryerson claims to be a US Marine, retired.

In my opinion, ex- Arny Infantry, we had nothing more powerful during WWII than our US Marine.

Then, our wonderful US Marines shot, stabbed, blew up, incinerated, doused with phospherate Japs.

Good hearing from you.

Skeptical.

Also, we need to stop giving our own people medals and promotions for doing exactly the same things to foreginers which we tried and executed our former enemies for doing to us.

The rest of the world expects a bit more consistency.