...but it seems to me that many women mistake nearly any intense emotional response for attraction. Same reason why so many date asshole after asshole while lamenting the lack of "good men." They get all confused emotionally by the nice one minute, mean the next rollercoaster ride that selfish and manipulative men take them on, and then mistake these strong feelings for something that they are not. Like attraction to what they perceive as the man's self confidence (he's so confident and self assured he doesn't even worry about how he treats me). And then they have a project, a mission, to try and change him to the sweetheart they are sure he is on the inside. But really he's not. You just can't tell the difference in an emotiolly confused state.

I think dating "asshole after asshole" is symptomatic of the idealized, romanticized "bad boy" that our society glamorizes. Quiet, decent men see what gets play in today's world and figure they are fools for being quiet and decent. The bad boys don't come emblazoned with an 'A'--but you know them when you see them. As long as their game works and they can get women attracted to their danger, they will fluorish. If the romance novel mind-set goes away, we will all be better off.

If you look into these seminars and self-help programs for men on how to pick up women, this is exactly what you are shown how to achieve. Now I should say, this can be done in a way that is not insidious and harmful. You can be a decent guy and still employ these methods, but it is just easier if you aren't burdoned by a conscience or have hang-ups about feeling/being manipulative. It's just the same stuff alot of "successful" guys do without even realizing it (good and bad). What they teach you is how to systematically put the woman on the defensive and undermine her confidence in order to push her emotional buttons in your favor. A backhanded insult followed by a quick joke. Stuff like that. Gets her all emotionally mixed up and then bam, you've caused a stir and she can't let it go. Suddenly she wants to know what makes you tick and why you aren't bending over to kiss her ass like other guys. You must be different, special. And then alot of that romance novel, taming the bad boy stuff kicks in too.

I also think it should be noted that the bad boy stuff isn't anything new. It's just that those "bad boys" in today's world have less of a need to be able to actually back up their badassness. Used to be you actually needed to be able to hunt or fight or lead or have some actual skill of value in order to create this perception of yourself. Now you just have to be able to act like jerk and not care if you are perceived as such. Seems to create the same response in (some) women either way.

As I recall this dating advice came from a guy who likes to wear a cape.

I don't know about the cape, but I do recall a friend of mine in High School, who did remarkabley well with the ladies, explaining to me one time that the meaner he was to the girls, the more they wanted him. And it was true as far as I saw. He wasn't super good looking or anything and would just go up to a girl in the hall, shove her a little and tell her to "shut up, nobody cares what you think," or something to that effect, then laugh and say he was just kidding. Then sure enough, they'd eventually be all over him at which point he'd basically ignore them. Seemed like insanity to me, but I've seen it over and over again. This may be controversial to say, but I think maybe most women do not even realize what they are actually attracted to. Cuz they'll tell you one thing and then turn around and go for the exact opposite agina and again. And extrapolating if only to tie this in to the subject at hand, someone inclined to abuse women could certainly be imagined to produce this same confusing, counterintuitive response from women who they are abusive towards.

'Well, it is good cape weather. Cool. Breezy.'

I agree with Screwjack, most people have a real disconnect between what they consciously claim they want and what they are attracted to.

Like every study says that women prefer guys who are engaging, funny, etc. And that's what I tend towards. But my interactions with women always end the same way: They liked talking to me, they liked me, even willing to keep seeing me socially, but zero romantic interest.

Then I see all the guy's who I consider boring assholes with chain dates...They never last as eventually they realize the guys are assholes, but they still line up for each guy to find out for themselves.

No one consciously thinks they want to be abused in the relationship, but apparently it fulfills some need that isn't covered by what they consciously desire.

Yep, the trick is to find that need and fulfill it responsibly.

No one consciously thinks they want to be abused in the relationship, but apparently it fulfills some need that isn't covered by what they consciously desire.

You ever hear the thing about children who misbehave just to get attention from their parents? Y'know, it's better to have good attention, but negative attention is better then being ignored.

I certainly don't buy the notion that women secretly want to be abused. But I do think that what women want, even the ones who won't admit it, is a man who is strong. Not just physically, but in character too. The problem is that so many men have turned into metrosexual, sensitive pussyboys (because that's what the politically concious girls say they want because it's what they're told they should want). So women all too often turn to the jerks. Because, yes they're assholes, but at least they have spines.

What women really need is a John Wayne type - a strong, unashamedly masculine, protector. But since all those men have had their balls cut off, the jerks are all that are left.

Um, true conservative, in your post you forgot to say that women are only attracted to Republicans. I mean are there any non-spineless, attractive, real men who are Democrats? If so, list them please. Shortest list ever. Do liberal men even HAVE a penis, haw, haw? It is so obvious that women are only attracted to John Wayne types it was a waste of typing to even mention it, right?

Just a funny sidenote. Since this has gone political (is there any escape?!), it should be pointed out that none other than country tough guy/blowhard Toby Keith is a democrat. But here is the really funny part. He says its because that is what his daddy was. How crazy is that?

And believe me, I've seen some metrosexual sensitive pussyboys walking around with some hot ass women who would laugh at John Wayne. So there are always exceptions...we should keep in mind we are trafficking in pretty broad generalities.

well, my point is that true conservative has his head so far up his own ass, all he can see is....John Wayne.

I mean are there any non-spineless, attractive, real men who are Democrats?

John Wayne is a Democrat, you dork. So is Tom Hanks (another strong nice guy you might know). Political affiliation has, I think, less to do with the rest of life than you might think.

the true conservative:

John Wayne is a Democrat, you dork. So is Tom Hanks (another strong nice guy you might know). Political affiliation has, I think, less to do with the rest of life than you might think.

Well perhaps there is hope for you after all, True Con. But that was a truly strange post. Earlier you claimed that:

"I do think that what women want, even the ones who won't admit it, is a man who is strong. Not just physically, but in character too. The problem is that so many men have turned into metrosexual, sensitive pussyboys What women really need is a John Wayne type - a strong, unashamedly masculine, protector."

But now your machismo list includes...um...Tom Hanks to go along with John Wayne? How about adding Alan Alda and Richard Simmons to the list?

Anyway a quick Google search will provide you with plenty of info about John Wayne's political leanings such as these:

In 1938 he attended a fund raiser for a Democratic candidate in New York, but soon afterwards "realized Democrats didn't stand for the same things I did". Henry Fonda believed Wayne called himself a liberal just so he wouldn't fall out with director John Ford, an activist liberal Democrat. It really wasn't until the 1940s that Wayne moved fully to the right on the political spectrum

Addressed the Republican National Convention on its opening day in 1968.

He supported Ronald Reagan's campaigns for governor of California in 1966 and 1970, as well as his bid for the Republican presidential nomination in 1976.

and surely would have voted for Reagan in 1980..if he hadn't died in 1979.

Screwjack:

I think you really bring up an interesting point, which I'm sure, will never be properly addressed. That's the real question: what is it about the psychology of women that repeatedly enter abusive relationships, or just date asshole after asshole while lamenting the lack of any decent men?

Through my anecdotal evidence, there's a huge disconnect from what women say they want and what they actually want.