Republicans don't have any ideas on how to deal with the economy except cutting taxes.

They shouldn't bristle at this. Any conservative would say the wall between government and economy is steadfast and must remain insurmountable. When an economic crisis hits, the private sector must take its lumps and endure.

This is why Republicans spend so much time picking apart liberal policy ideas, looking for blame when a downturn happens; they don't dwell on the fact that business cycles are normal and that corrections take place every so often. And since they have nothing to offer as far as solutions go, they need to look like they're doing something, hence the fiery rhetoric and obstructionism.

Now if Republicans were still in the majority, we'd still see a stimulus package; there is absolutely no question about this. It might contain more tax cuts and different kinds of pork, but no politician wants to look like he's not gonna do anything when times are bad. That's the great moral test that withers the average conservative to become a mushy, left-sliding moderate. The People won't stand for nothing. You gotta prove you've earned that lifetime pension.

But doing anything beyond cutting taxes is an immediate affront to conservative ideals. Cutting regulation doesn't do a whole lot, either, and won't stop the next swing of the business cycle; cut out regulations entirely, and you'll hasten the next recession even faster and you won't have regulations to blame for the downturn.

My point in all this is simple: conservatives think government can't do anything very well and shouldn't be trusted to do much, which is why it's much easier to be conservative when you're in the minority. It's also why Republicans don't handle leadership very effectively. If you don't think the government can do much of anything right, how can you be trusted with leading it? You can't.

I would say that liberals have no ideas except spending taxpayers money. I wouldn't count a $600 workers tax rebate a tax cut - after all , Michelle O doesn't.

CPAJen:

I would say that liberals have no ideas except spending taxpayers money. I wouldn't count a $600 workers tax rebate a tax cut - after all , Michelle O doesn't.

This is a great explanation for why Republicans increased spending to massive levels...or something...

"Any conservative would say the wall between government and economy is steadfast and must remain insurmountable."

A pity they don’t feel as strongly about the wall of separation between church and state… :-)

Anse Said: "This is why Republicans spend so much time picking apart liberal policy ideas, looking for blame when a downturn happens; they don't dwell on the fact that business cycles are normal and that corrections take place every so often."

If I understand what you are saying is that the Rep's want to lay blame when the cause is just the normal cycle. That very well may be true about the Rep's but does this not also point out the absurdity of laying out so much money and increasing our debt to fix something that will fix itself?

I think the problem with the Rep's is that much of what Obama is doing is not so very different from what W did or would do. That really is the problem in DC. They yell and argue and both parties go on their merry way ripping the country off. W spent too much which provides the Dem's with the excuse that W did it too. Then you add in the we won so we can do what we want and if you cannot picture two little children arguing I am not sure how objective you can be. I also love the arguments about how destructive W's overspending was as the proceed to overspend at an even more alarming rate.

I think the fix is very simple. We need to hold both parties to the fire and make them implement real measures that will help the country. While the pork in that bill is not a big deal it still comes out of more than 50 bucks for every person in the US roughly. Probably a decent number if you count only those who pay taxes. The argument is absurd. When I have a financial crisis I save where ever I can. To spend more than is needed because it is only a part of the problem is insane. You know the old saying 16 billion here 16 billion there and soon it starts to add up.

I may have heard this wrong but I thought I heard that the money spent under Obama and it is just 40 days now, is more than was spent by all the other administrations since the founding of the country.

Actually, it's not an explanation for Republicans at all. It's a comment about how the Dems love to spend money. The Reps in this past Congress loved to spend money too but cut taxes too. I never hear the Dems talk about tax cuts - only increases.

I guess I will never understand the "Reps spend money so you can't compain about the Dems running up the bill" argument. I have complained about the Reps wasteful ways and I will complain about the Dems spending. I don't see how the Reps spending immunizes the Dems from critisism.

Exactly! You can't spend money you actually have on things your people need, like rebuilding your own nation's crumbling and antiquated infrastructure. That's crazy talk. If you give rich people tax cuts they will naturally reinvest that money into creating modern water and electrical systems before the ones we have collapse from age, as well as seeing to it that roads and sewers are kept in good repair. They do this from the goodness of their hearts, and the invisible hand of the market will see to it that it happens! The proper role of government is only to borrow money from abroad and then spend it on rebuilding someone else's country after bombing them. It's fine if the bill falls on future generations, because we're living in the End Times anyway! This is what we call fiscal conservatism. ;-)

(Isn't it depressing that this post actually presents a more or less accurate portrait of the contemporary American Right?)

pretty hysterical quilsinster. In PA electrical system, water systems, sewer systems are all managed by utilities who have rates set to cover their costs. We are paying for all that already. Take a look through the bill and you might notice how little is actually for infrastructure that we all use. A lot of it is for growing government agencies and facilities. That surely will spur on economic growth.

If you expand the size of the house you live in does that mean your costs will go down and your income will rise?

Also, if you ever had a small business you might have heard of sub-chapter S corps. Small business's where their income is divided among the owners. Guess what, that does not mean that they have it in their pockets. The tax increase is going to affect an enormous number of small businesses and if you think that the added tax is not going to have an effect you do not know how to add or subtract. For some reason we have grown to view those who make more as evil and I just do not get it. I am not in that category by the way.

Most of that money is only going to grow the size and cost of keeping the government and if you do not think that as the cost goes up the tax man is not going to come for you, well you are out of your mind. Forget about all the other impacts of a huge deficit that no one is talking about. Inflation is one you may have heard of, but what about the potential that the credit rating of the US goes down and the interest rate to sell our bonds increases, do the math on that some time and you will barf.

What they (all of the people in DC) say and what the reality is tends to be pretty far apart and if you do not examine the details you will think they are doing great things for you. Guess what they are NOT.

I think their idea was not to elect a Democrat.

Nobody has any ideas what to do now. Just look at the auto industry. Obama is targeting the very people who buy new cars. Businesses that buy cars are getting nailed. The result: New car purchases are permanently placed on the back burner and Detroit suffers even more.

This same situation will echo through all the major appliance products, electronics, travel and entertainment. People who use to spend are hanging on to their money. Obama is not giving the others enough to spend. They are barely getting enough to survive and many won't survive.

Obama's war on capitalism is strangling this country. The entire country is aghast at the magnitude of his folly and we see more of every day.

Scooter, how can we take your points seriously when you say that the "entire country" is aghast at what Obama is doing. Recent opinion polls show that a substantial majority of this country approves of Obama right now. It sounds as if you think that so many people agree with you because you have been talking in an echo chamber.

Raptor said: "Take a look through the bill and you might notice how little is actually for infrastructure that we all use. A lot of it is for growing government agencies and facilities. That surely will spur on economic growth."

Except that government agencies and infrastructure are not exclusive categories. The Army Corps is an agency and like many others they have a backlog of projects, so increasing their budget doesn't mean the money disappears into some secret gov't black hole.

The only money I've heard about for gov't facilities is for making them more energy efficient. That's valuable work, a long term reduction in overhead costs and a reduction in energy costs for everyone else in the market. So, yeah that will spur economic growth.

Like many (all?) of the stimulus opponents, you simply assert the bill won't work.

Then you just don't listen very carefully.

At the end of March, roughly 95% of working Americans will begin seeing a little extra money in their paychecks.

From Obama's tax cut.

I do listen - if you listen to Michelle Obama discuss the previous tax rebate ($600 per worker, 300 per child) she said that it wasn't enough. But now I guess it is? You're not kidding about a little extra money - $13 a week isn't exactly a windfall.

Maybe you don't read very well - I referenced this is my original post:

I wouldn't count a $600 workers tax rebate a tax cut - after all , Michelle O doesn't.

Other than that, what are the Democrats' ideas for tax cuts or decreases in spending?

The convienient thing for the GOP right now is that it doesn't matter that they have no ideas. They could have the solutions to every problem in the world and it wouldn't get them any traction in terms of any of it becoming policy.

You're onto something though with the fact that even if there is truly nothing of consequence the gov't can do, the people will not tolerate being confronted with that fact, and will not accept anything short of extravagant, wasteful, and ineffectual symbolic gestures which will ultimately do little more than deplete tax revenues and fill column-inches in the local paper with statements while every bad thing continues to happen unhindered.

The only way the idea of limited government upon which this country was founded (the last thing the framers added to the Constitution were amendments 9 and 10, clarifying that the whole purpose of the entire document is to delineate the scope of the governmnet and reserve the rest to the people) can be expected to make its way back into policy is if enough of the populace can somehow be disabused of the notion that dealing with their own lives is some sort of intolerable opression and that they can't be truly "free" until they've gor Big Brother looking out for them from the cradle to the grave.

Is more than the typical working-class American got from George W. Bush's tax cuts, which were, of course, targeted (like a laser-beam) at the ultra-wealthy. I got a whopping $4 a month from George's tax cuts. Whoopee! I could go to Burger King, I guess, and get a Whopper. Once a month. For $52 a month, I suppose I could go to the Olive Garden two or three times a month. [I like The Olive Garden a heck of a lot better than Burger King.] Not that I'm going to do that: I will be saving my extra money, and funneling it into my 401K, which right now is mostly invested in U.S. Government bonds. [Safest investment in the world.....so far....]

Your complaint now seems to be that Obama's tax cut is 'not large enough'...and then you turn around and complain about the deficits; or you complain that Obama's tax cuts are going to people who don't owe any income tax to begin with (even though they pay plenty in other taxes and government fees). And I imagine that there will be some large cuts in defense spending in another year or two, especially after we extricate ourselves from Iraq (and hopefully Afghanistan, too). And of course the Republicans will howl about that. Obama has also talked about serious cuts in U.S. agricultural subsidies, which go to mostly very large agribusinesses like Monsanto and Archer Daniels Midland. [It is corporate welfare, in other words.] And the red state Republicans will howl about that, too.

Sorry. We tried it your way. It didn't work. In fact, it created an economic disaster. Now we are going to try a different way, and the overwhelming majority of Americans approve of the change in direction.