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Right policy, wrong reason, poor logic.
by Madai

When South Park decided to parody Eliot Spitzer's foolish attempts to have unprotected sex with an overpriced hooker, they decided to have a man deliberately letting a cat piss in his face because it would get him high.

So, when I think of Eliot Spitzer, I think of a man with cat piss on his face, running around imagining he is battling mighty foes with his boob-lance.

So after looking at his cherry-picked data, faulty logic, and basic lack of understanding of human behavior, I thought, he must think we're idiots! And then, it occurred to me, that we ARE idiots, and it's just that Eliot didn't put his finger on the precise kind of idiotic behavior privatization of social security would have produced.

One need look no further than the 401k. You can borrow against it, you can tap it early, etc. What does this mean? Tell people they have money, and they will spend it. Nobody is going to be being annuities at age 66 so they never outlive their money! The OPPOSITE will occur! The vast majority of couple I might add, make far less than 100k-to-150k, you elitist adultering prick, will fritter away their money as fast as legally possible. There's businesses advertising on TV to help people convert annuities into "money now": JG Wentworth is one such business. I'm sure it's a horrible deal, just like a payday loan, but, people ARE idiots, and will do it anyway.

And while some of the dumbest will spend it on $4000 hookers, big screen TVs, and gamble it away in casinos, the bulk of the dumb people will do something all the dumber because they think they're being smart. THEY WILL DUMP THE MONEY INTO GETTING A BIGGER HOUSE.

That's the REAL reason why privatizing would have screwed us: we'd have had an even bigger bubble, and an even more catastrophic fall when mr. bubble burst.

Now that I've said the real reason why privatizing is bad, I just want to highlight all the stupid things you said:

1. You cherry picked the years market performance. 2000 was the end of one of the longest stock market booms on the books. Did you think anyone who watched the markets wouldn't remember? Get serious. use LONGTERM market performance. 20-year periods at least.

2. The dow includes companies with longterm performance issues, i.e., GM. additionally, many dow companies pay dividends. So, the dow is not a good indicator of investment returns, even for someone investing in the dow itself.

3. 80% of the population lives in households that make less than 100k. if you only have the energy for one example, you should really choose an example of a couple making far far less money, a more average couple. Don't bore us with the plight of the upper middle class!

4. Annuities aren't very popular. I would not pay anyone 500k to pay me 3k every month for the rest of my life even now, let along when I'm 66. One, I think I'm smarter and can beat that ROI, even if if I'm not and I can't, two, I want flexibility-- money available for emergencies, not doeled out in pathetic chunks, and three many companies offering annuities are kinda shitty companies I wouldn't trust to last to pay out the payments in perpetuity, four, I fear inflation. 3k a month doesn't even go far NOW, and will will go even less far and less far as you age and get less healthy and need it even more. Of course, we all know you wouldn't use your 500k to buy an annuity... 500k is only 125 visits to your favorite hooker!

5. People retire when they can afford to. Some people go early, some work into their 70s. And, If you privatize social security, you'll widen the bell curve-- more early retirees, and, if times when the market is bad, more people holding on to those jobs and earning just a little bit longer until the market rebounds. This of course, will REALLY screw the kids graduating college. if there's a recession, kids, their will be no jobs for you. not only will the job market suck, you'll be competing with old farts with a 30-year experience advantage trying to pad their retirement nest egg just a bit more.

6. Social security is not a ponzi scheme, precisely because the young are FORCED to pay in, knowing they could probably get a better return on "investment" elsewhere. Ponzi schemes, when running, are "too good to be true". Social Security, when running, is "So shitty we debate privatizing it".

Re: Right policy, wrong reason, poor logic.
by Philadelphia Steve
No. Right wingers "debate" privatizing it because they enjoy the idea that old people will live out ther last few years in poverty and die early for lack of medical care. Just as they did before Franklin Roosevelt.
Re: Right policy, wrong reason, poor logic.
by jt1980

> 1. You cherry picked the years market performance. 2000 was the end of one of the longest stock market booms on the books. Did you think anyone who watched the markets wouldn't remember? Get serious. use LONGTERM market performance. 20-year periods at least.

But then you'd be cherry-picking since you just picked the best 20-years of the stock market!

The DJI peak in 1929 was 361. If you put money into the market then your investment grew 21 times, worse than a boring 4% annual investment (which would have yielded 23 times).

Re: Right policy, wrong reason, poor logic.
by jt1980

I'd like to add one more point: Let's say that you somehow got money to invest after October 29th, 1929 (who would have?), your investment would have grown just a tad above 4.5% annual. That's very bad considering all the risks involved (as the DJI did not truly recover until well into the 50s.)

Re: Right policy, wrong reason, poor logic.
by Madai

JT, good work, you're mounting a better argument than spitzer, but, you're still forgetting dividends, and the fact that the dow is a collection of large companies operating in saturated markets. They grow at about the same pace as the overall economy, and thus investing in the dow is not a way to beat the market. So, the return on the dow is higher than just a calculation of the index, and with a little research, a person can beat the dow most years.

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