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Why block the tunnels?
by melgund
+2 Reply

Hamas did not renew the cease fire because of Israeli raids during November and because of the Israeli blockade of Gaza had caused widespread malnutrition. Israel did not take getting driven out of Gaza well.

The tunnels where the only way that supplies could be brought into Gaza. They probably prevented widespread starvation.

So now we have an attempt by Israel to establish complete control over Gaza by eliminating the tunnels.

Given the undisciplined performance by the IDF (unless they were trying to kill women and children in UN buildings)

Why should any Palestinian trust Israel to treat them fairly?

Gazans need weapons to defend themselves against future assassination attempts and ethnic cleaning that have been Israels stock and trade since that "Liberated" the West Bank and Gaza in 1967.

And what is a publication like Slate doing helping Israel stick to Palestinians after what we have all witnessed over the last moth.

Shame of you!

Re: Why block the tunnels?
by Eddie_Bear
How is this? YOU OPEN YOUR MIND! Last i checked Gaza has TWO countries blockading it. Gee, the other would be EGYPT, its ARAB neighbour!
Re: Why block the tunnels?
by Thoughtful Ted

Are you one of those 65,000 Hamas operatives hired to flood the internet with this crap?

We gotcha!

Re: Why block the tunnels?
by melgund
Why not respond to the stuff I wrote rather than trying to personally discredit me?
Re: Why block the tunnels?
by tjcerveza
Hamas Operatives. Slate is full of these murder loving scum bags.
Re: Why block the tunnels?
by melgund

Does character assassination mean that you have no response?

It is not useful to treat the conflict in the middle east like a cowboy movie where you argue about who are the good guys.

Israel (and it appears Slate's) interest seems to be in starve the population of Gaza into abandoning their support for Hamas.

As an alternative I think that Israel should start a dialogue with Hamas by asking what it would take to get them to stop lobbying rockets into southern Israel. They may not like the answer but at least they tried to talk.

Forget about Hamas not being Zionist. I worked in the labor movement for 30 years. We negotiated with employers who hated unions. We were still able to reach agreements.

As Jimmy Carter wrote, Israel has a legitimate concern for the safety of their citizens. The problem is that they are not willing to negotiate as equals.

I get sick of all this moral high ground stuff from politicians who continue to build settlement on land they claim they will return.

And politicians who now want the international community ( with Slate help) to accomplish what they were not able to do in three weeks of war that killed 1,300 mainly innocent people

Re: Why block the tunnels?
by Thoughtful Ted

<link>

Try reading this and then tell me how Israel can make any kind of deal with Hamas at all.

I will assume that you are not an operative, only misled by Arab propaganda or else you really have no idea at all as to what this fight is really all about.

Re: Why block the tunnels?
by tehuti
Israel Hits Another UN School before Ceasing Fire

Israeli military shelled yet a fourth UN school--where 1600 refugees from the vast swathe of destruction wrought by Israeli airstrikes-- were huddling. The Israelis killed two little boys and wounded a dozen other refugees.

http://www.juancole.com/

Another War, Another Defeat

"The key to achieving this is to inflict massive pain on the Palestinians so that they come to accept the fact that they are a defeated people and that Israel will be largely responsible for controlling their future. This strategy, which was first articulated by Ze’ev Jabotinsky in the 1920s and has heavily influenced Israeli policy since 1948, is commonly referred to as the “Iron Wall.”

What has been happening in Gaza is fully consistent with this strategy."

"....How did Israel behave during this same period? It continued arresting and assassinating Palestinians on the West Bank, and it continued the deadly blockade that was slowly strangling Gaza. Then on Nov. 4, as Americans voted for a new president, Israel attacked a tunnel inside Gaza and killed six Palestinians. It was the first major violation of the ceasefire, and the Palestinians—who had been “careful to maintain the ceasefire,” according to Israel’s Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center—responded by resuming rocket attacks. The calm that had prevailed since June vanished as Israel ratcheted up the blockade and its attacks into Gaza and the Palestinians hurled more rockets at Israel. It is worth noting that not a single Israeli was killed by Palestinian missiles between Nov. 4 and the launching of the war on Dec. 27"

"As the violence increased, Hamas made clear that it had no interest in extending the ceasefire beyond Dec. 19, which is hardly surprising, since it had not worked as intended. In mid-December, however, Hamas informed Israel that it was still willing to negotiate a long-term ceasefire if it included an end to the arrests and assassinations as well as the lifting of the blockade. But the Israelis, having used the ceasefire to prepare for war against Hamas, rejected this overture. The bombing of Gaza commenced eight days after the failed ceasefire formally ended."

<link>

Re: Why block the tunnels?
by Thoughtful Ted

Israel Hits Another UN School before Ceasing Fire

Israeli military shelled yet a fourth UN school--where 1600 refugees from the vast swathe of destruction wrought by Israeli airstrikes-- were huddling. The Israelis killed two little boys and wounded a dozen other refugees.

Is there a point connected to this? Just asking.

"The key to achieving this is to inflict massive pain on the Palestinians so that they come to accept the fact that they are a defeated people and that Israel will be largely responsible for controlling their future. This strategy, which was first articulated by Ze’ev Jabotinsky in the 1920s and has heavily influenced Israeli policy since 1948, is commonly referred to as the “Iron Wall.”

What has been happening in Gaza is fully consistent with this strategy."

1) Can you provide citations that prove the authenticity of this supposed statement by Jabotinsky?

2) To claim that a supposed 'strategy" articulated nearly a hundred years ago is still at work today makes about as much sense as that Barack Obama is continuing a strategic policy first articulated by Teddy Roosevelt. There might be some elements that are the same, but times change. Well, maybe not for you

"....How did Israel behave during this same period? It continued arresting and assassinating Palestinians on the West Bank, and it continued the deadly blockade that was slowly strangling Gaza. Then on Nov. 4, as Americans voted for a new president, Israel attacked a tunnel inside Gaza and killed six Palestinians. It was the first major violation of the ceasefire, and the Palestinians—who had been “careful to maintain the ceasefire,” according to Israel’s Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center—responded by resuming rocket attacks.

OK. Let's deal with this.

First, provide sources for your statement about assassinations on the West Bank.

Secnd, why was there a blockade? Why exactly did Israel attack the tunnel? Was this really a "violation?"

You use a part of an Israel Intelligence Report about Hamas being "careful to maintain the cease fire." Either you didn't find this report yourself, or you didn't read beyond what satisfied your prejudices. My money is on the former, but, never mind, here is a link to the actual report.

<link>

Herewith some excerpts:
A period of relative quiet between June 19 and November 4 : As of June 19, there was a marked reduction in the extent of attacks on the western Negev population. The lull was sporadically violated by rocket and mortar shell fire, carried out by rogue terrorist organizations, in some instance in defiance of Hamas (especially by Fatah and Al-Qaeda supporters). Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire. The IDF refrained from undertaking counterterrorism activities in the Gaza Strip, taking only routine defensive security measures along the border fence. Between June 19 and November 4, 20 rockets (three of which fell inside the Gaza Strip) and 18 mortar shells (five of which fell inside the Gaza Strip) were fired at Israel .

But you left this part out, didn't you?

ii) The escalation and erosion of the lull arrangement, November 4 to the time of this writing, December 17 2: On November 4 the IDF carried out a military action close to the border security fence on the Gazan side to prevent an abduction planned by Hamas, which had dug a tunnel under the fence to that purpose. Seven Hamas terrorist operatives were killed during the action. In retaliation, Hamas and the other terrorist organizations attacked Israel with a massive barrage of rockets. Since then, 191 rockets and 138 mortar shells have been fired. The attacks have been continuous and some were carried out by weapons not previously used, such as 122mm standard Grad rockets and 120mm mortar shells. Hamas has been directly involved in the attacks in cooperation with the other terrorist organizations.

Conclusion: It is safe to say that the lull arrangement, especially its first period, provided a breathing-space in the daily fighting between Israel and Hamas. During that time there was also a significant increase in the amount of goods delivered to the Gaza Strip through the crossings. However, when the terrorist organizations began a policy of continuous rocket and mortar shell attacks against Israel , accompanied by other forms of terrorism, the lull arrangement was eroded to the point where it remained only on paper as its first six months drew to a close.

If you take the time to peruse the entire report, you might find it eye-opening, though I doubt it. And please don't complain that I'm using some kind of biased Israeli source. You started it, I'm just hitting back.

It is worth noting that not a single Israeli was killed by Palestinian missiles between Nov. 4 and the launching of the war on Dec. 27"

And aside from that being blind luck, what's your point?

"As the violence increased, Hamas made clear that it had no interest in extending the ceasefire beyond Dec. 19, which is hardly surprising, since it had not worked as intended. In mid-December, however, Hamas informed Israel that it was still willing to negotiate a long-term ceasefire if it included an end to the arrests and assassinations as well as the lifting of the blockade. But the Israelis, having used the ceasefire to prepare for war against Hamas, rejected this overture. The bombing of Gaza commenced eight days after the failed ceasefire formally ended."

Please provide your source for this statement, though, considering the line I highlighted in bold face, it's probably nothing but an Arab Propaganda site.

And, if you're thinking of sending me back to your Patrick Buchanan Anti-Semitic website, please don't bother. And please don't tell me that Buchanan isn't an anti-Semite.

And, BTW, Mearscheimer and his co-con artist Walt, have been shown up numerous times to have falsified their so-called evidence. They are totally discredited for everyone but the Jew-haters.

Excellent post
by Horus
...tells it like it is, something which Saletan and a number of posters here seem unable to do.
You got nothing
by Horus
....especially a clue.
It's certainly full
by Horus
...of Zionist propagandists who'll excuse the Sacred State of Israel any crime or act of violence, as your posts abudantly point out.
Re: Why block the tunnels?
by Thoughtful Ted
Hey Tehuti. Your silence is deafening.
Re: Why block the tunnels?
by Thoughtful Ted
Still waiting.
WTF, 1000 to 1 kill ratio
by GETASHRUBERY

Israel needs a war crime study. They are breeding terrorist; soon destruction will be too defused to strike only a "GAZA strip". The 5th grade mentality of "king of the hill" only works well for 5th graders.

Get with it start winning the hearts and minds or prepare to be retired.

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