the point was simple; you made it sound like by not being a country that somehow makes it less sovereign a homeland.... who cares if it was NEVER a country? Does that legitimize driving people from their homes? (No) .... I hope you live in unincorporated land, so you can realize that it doesn't make your house any less sovereign; does the current political movement in power over in China have the right to drive Chinese farmers from their ancestral lands? A political power less than 100 years old, acting on the decisions of leaders less than 30 years in power, taking the land that was passed down for thousands of years in those families? Does the current Chinese courts make that legit? Do courts sometimes/oftentimes legitimize criminal behavior? How much money does it cost to buy justice in America? A DUI in Chicago is $10,000 to get your license back, everyone knows that.

my point was that the Palestinians were more than just "from the area" ... this was their homeland. Israelite armies marched in under Sharon and drove them from their homes by force. Same thing happened to the Kurds; the Sunnis drove them out of their homes; after we invaded and drove the Sunnis from power, the Kurds came back in small mob action and drove the Sunnis back out of their homes - the only difference between the two actions was that Saddam was recognized as a country; so you would say the original sin was legit, while the Kurds taking back their homes was illegal?

Just because lawyers claim something is legal doesn't automatically make it RIGHT. when you say Palestine was never a COUNTRY, what you are really saying is that it was okay for the Israelites to drive them from their homes because they had the blessing of the British and American forces who had recently conquered the region and drove out the Germans. Your tacit reference to a COUNTRY is little more than saying, their legal claim to their homes was rightfully denied on account of the political zionist movement had more pull in the minds of the British and American governments. My response (did you read my Link?) was to point out that our courts recognize our desires; we drive the Mexicans from their lands and then claim they belong to us, incorporate them into our United States and then pass laws claiming that the Mexicans now in those lands are "illegal immigrants" - never mind we took the land from them to begin with.

So you point out that Palestine was NEVER a country; big deal... In essence, what you are saying is MIGHT makes RIGHT.

You claimed we drove Mexicans from their lands and now call any who live there illegal immigrants? Where do you get your fantasy's.

The ILLEGAL immigrants are the people who sneak into this country without proper Visa's and then proceed to undercut American labor and break laws with abandon. Are you now claiming that all Americans who are not descendent's of the aboriginal natives should leave? What, dissect my body and send it back to at least 4 different nations? Don't you recall that most of the illegal immigrants you shed tears for are descendent's of Spaniards who brutally murdered the native populations of Central and South America while stealing their gold and other valuables.

Do you support the goals and the intentions of the U.N.? They are the ones who created Israel to allow for Jewish people to live somewhere where they would not be persecuted and suffer another Holocaust. Please address the righteousness of full grown Palestinian men who convince young 11 year old children to strap dynamite to themselves and then commit suicide while standing next to other innocent children. Meanwhile those you cry tears for sit safely drinking their tea and calling themselves freedom fighters.

I couldn't actually give a hoot who wins the mythical national championship... but if I had to make an argument, I would have to side on Utah's 13-0 season. They beat four ranked teams and they pasted Alabama from the first possession versus Florida pulling it out in the bottom of the 4th quarter. Again, I couldn't care less about making college kids devote even more time to football in a playoff versus the bowls... but if I had to decide which is fairer, obviously the playoff structure gives all the top rated teams a chance to prove they are #1.

Similarly, I couldn't care less about politics or the conquest of nations or the laws of mortals or the passions of civilization; all of man's righteousness is filthy rags compared to the divine; we are woefully short of God's glory, no nation, no kingdom, no alliance, no settlement, no set of statutes, nothing that man has ever set up is worth crying over; good riddance to human government when Jesus returns and does away with it. But in the meantimes, if Texas, New mexico, Arizona, and California were all parts of Mexico and we just took it away from them, then yes, it takes a lot of gaul to turn around and fight against Mexican immigrants... especially in the lands we took from them. Go ahead hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend, do it in the name of heaven, you'll be justified in the end. Hey, if the boot fits. The Conquistadors from Europe came in many flavors and nationalities.

Now the case is different for native Americans, because we totally wiped them out. I've searched and searched for the Chicago, Blackhawk, Algonquin, Pottawattamee, and really anyone who could show that they are a direct descendant of the native indians that inhabited northeast Illinois. I have not yet even heard of a single soul living anywhere in the six county area, and no one can say exactly what happened to them. At any rate, there's nothing to argue about here; that confrontation doesn't exist any more. Colombia is one fourth it's original size, but no one seems to give a damn; Austria was maybe the biggest power in Europe prior to the first world war; look how quickly the political map changed. The Zionist movement gained traction in Great Britain around the turn of the century; so it just seized the holocaust as an excuse for a cause it had long been fighting for. But they played up Hitler as the biggest monster of his time; when Stalin murdered ten times as many innocents... and right on their heels, Mao out murdered both of them put together. Choose who you want to cry for. How does the evil done to European jews by Hitler justify the evil being done to Palestinians by Israel?

This top post was pulled from the middle of Chad Dangle's thread, where he made the callous argument that Palestine was never a country - does that justify taking away their homeland? Does a UN mandate justify it? How can you justify the same crime of murder and theft against anyone just because it happened so many times in history over and over? I'm not the one getting emotional over this idea; I already concluded the whole world in sin and in need of receiving the jewish God into their heart... why pick the jewish God? Because he's the one I found sitting on the throne in heaven when I visited in spirit before I had any idea that there was a God.

Not one word did you write to discuss the practice of grown men convincing 11 year old boys to strap dynamite to themselves and murder other young children by blowing themselves up next to them. Not one word did you write about grown men hiding amoung women while shooting thousands of rockets at civilians, not one word about wealthy Arab oil nations that pay 10,000 dollars to families of suicide bombers but not one penny of help to build hospitals. But you write plenty of words about somethng no one alive today had anything to do with.

Oh yeah we're all just playing up the Holocaust. What kind of moron makes the kind of argument like that? Stalin was evil but he stopped himself when he had thinned his own population, that does not excuse it but its the truth. Hitler was going to kill every jew that lived on the planet. The final solution. He had to be stopped. So yes the world banded together and said never again. Except you seem to want to see all the jews pushed into the sea and killed.

You need to close the bible for a day and walk in the light of the real world for awhile, The world you live in now not the one you want to live in after you die.. Hamas is happy about all of the killing. This is what they want. The more people Israel kills the better Hamas and their missle suppliers in Iran are happy. If Hamas stops firing rockets Israel has to stop fighting or it will lose the support of GWB. Hamas knows this so it keeps firing Rockets.

get a clue.

You get into the day to day attrocities, while I was just looking at the big picture of what is happening over there. All the day to day stuff sucks, there's no end to the attrocities on both sides. But the big picture is pretty simple, zionism is pushing the Palestinians aside and taking their homeland for the jews. That I can see clearly what is taking place does not equal me advocating that the reverse should now take place and all the jews should be pushed into the sea and killed. Just because I can clearly see that the Palestinians are being murdered and pushed from their land doesn't equal me agreeing with the Palestinians thirst for vengeance. I never said that. Nor did I offer my own head as a price for the evil visited upon American natives by Europeans hundreds of years ago. But the Europeans clearly murdered the natives and stole their land. Did the Indians take innocent scalps from Europeans settlers ... sure they did; was it justified? No crime is justified. But the Europeans justified their conquest of the New World, and that was no different than the European jews conquest of Palestine. You seek to justify it by stating that the Palestinians fighting to get their land back are fighting dirty... consider their options. Do you think the British felt Washington was a scoundrel when he fled over the Potomac during the holiday break instead of surrendering? ... the British had him trapped and could have wiped him out; they didn't have to give him time to surrender to spare his life and his army's lives. But the British did the honorable thing and gave him space to celebrate the holiday and then surrender and instead Washington fought dirty. Has dirty fighting gotten dirtier? oh yeah.

You totally missed my point on the Holocaust. My point was simple: the holocaust did not germinate the zionist movement; the political struggle to set aside a homeland for the jews in Palestine pre-dated the holocaust by a century. Zionists seized on the holocaust as means to trigger the creation of a modern Israel; so yes, in that form, it was used as propaganda towards their original goal. Whether it was exaggerated is a moot point; but anything that is caught up in a political wind gets exaggerated, it would be almost impossible for it not to get exaggerated... but that's not important, the point is that Zionism was a fervor that previous pogroms germinated, European jews have a long history of suffering, but the question becomes... does this justify creating an army and pushing Palestinians from their homes so the jews could settle in their ancestral homeland? I can tell you from scripture that it was going to happen; it is the biggest prophecy of the entire Bible, does that make God himself complicit? From a legal standpoint I would say yes... based upon American Law. Does God give a damn about American Law? Probably not.

You want to take a walk in the real world? Then open your Bible. Because these are the days of vengeance when all things written in the prophets are being fulfilled... in the real world.

Daniel 11:

35

And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

36

And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37

Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38

But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

39

Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

40

And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

41

He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

42

He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

43

But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

44

But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

45

And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Speaking of which, why don't you give us some concrete examples of 11 years olds strapped with suicide vests.

furthermore, please give a concrete example of grown men hiding among women while shooting thousands of rockets. I'd really like to see that. Mind where you source your material because that may play a big role in proving you who you shill for.

Af for money paid by wealthy Arab nations, I believe it was Saddam who paid $25,000 for the acts you are mentioning. He's not around but I'd like to see that too. Usually we get links with these kinds of claims. Strangely, I have heard that Arab fighters do no hide among women but there is plenty of evidence that Israeli soliders may well do so as has been reported in the press on various occasions. Maybe you'd like to take a gander at this <link>

And when you see Roger Ailes again tell him I didn't say hello.

With this latest drivel, you have now become the longest running comedy show on the Fray.

Jack

I want to see actual cases of 11 year old suicide bombers. I happen to know that this is bullshit of the sort put out by World NET Daily and other trojan worm media organs. I want to see the FACTS of Palestinian fighters hiding in the population for THE PURPOSE of carnage. I want to see WHO is saying WHAT and how that pans out with what actually is. I hope it is not to much to ask. What I see is a 300 pound gorilla raping a 12 year old boy and claiming he made me do it.

Now... I can provide facts on the ground but I know you have no interest in them... however... I do have them. I suspect that you have nothing. To you these aren't even people. To me they are. Much of you here are like bacon crackling on a fire but you don't know it and possibly why you take such pleasure in eating it.

Pleased to meet you Apollonius, your blog is very popular throughout the world including here in Europe. Most of it I suspect will not make much sense to your fellow countrymen whose access to information about what is going on in the world is severely restricted. Thank God for the internet I suppose, although it doesn't seem to be helping some members of this forum.

America is still a nation of pig farmers and red neck industrialists. We love to think of ourselves as high tech, but we still prefer to move at a snail's pace. Without the internet, these same posters would be much more stubborn and narrow minded... trust me, I remember those days.

Hey. How are you doing?

You've seen this <link> right?

"Mind where you source your material because that may play a big role in proving you who you shill for."

Its pretty obvious you left yourself a large loophole to simply dismiss anything I link or post. So perhaps you could make an attempt to post something that shows I would not be wastring my time. Are you now claiming the Palistenians have not used any children, or women for that matter as suicide bombers? Tell me what sources you will not accept and I will then provide links that do not include them.

I have never met Roger Ailes.

Your obscure drug induce rants are now widely popular amoung drug use hating muslims the world over. The same poeple who happily stone people to death for doing what you insist should be made legal now hinge upon your every word. Such popularity you now have.

Maybe they will make you an Imam and you can condem women to death for the crime of having been raped and impregnated. You can do this while in the haze of one of your self induced hallucinations.