If you think the vast majority of Americans are against the war now--and they are--try to start a draft. Funding would be cut off so fast your head would spin. NOBODY will want to have their kids drafted to die in Iraq, and that goes double for the neocons. Jenna and Barbara in fatigues, anyone?

Furthermore, the argument that "everyone should serve his [and her?] country" is predicated on an imperial government to which citizens must be subservient. If we view government as the servant of the people and their will, the concept is nonsensical. "Serving the country" is a euphemism for subjecting the people to will of the state, the sovereign, and the moneyed interests that control it.

Grump, the war is over in as much as we're already looking to leave Iraq. We will not have a significant troop presence there by the time we get another president in the White House. I suspect we will always have some significant military potential there however, either via our navy in the Gulf and/or some troops in a desert fortress reaching out and killing people as necessary. But extremly low-grade stuff. This occupation as we know it won't last too much longer.

The war being waged against the West by Islam - and yes, all of Islam we need to grow up here and face facts - will not be over for a long time. It will simply usher in a whole new era of greater instability, greater Islamic militant ascendancy and discord throughout the world.

As the world gets closer together, Islam is being pinched by a modernity it finds repulsive, evil and destructive. We will have more Islamic militancy, not less, regardless of what we do in Iraq. (And I agree; lets get out of there as soon as possible.) Regardless of our next president, regardless of our own policies.

Bs. Starting a draft will not solve this war. They will continue to kill each other and us till the end of time or they are all dead. NOTHING will solve what is going on over there.

I think that GrumpyOldMan lacks a frim grip on the conceptual distinction between a Nation and its Government, or otherwise he appears be so fearful of his government that he's taking no chances and lumps both Nation and Government in the horrific entity that he describes as the 'imperial government to which citizens must be subservient'. Apparently he trusts the appointed and by its nature and structure much more 'Imperial' military a lot more than our Nationally elected government.

Based on historical perspective I have held on to the belief that an all-volunteer armed services construction always has the inherent risk of forming a State-within-a-State that may or may not feel obliged to honor the civilian imposed National Constitution or the authority as excercised by its civilian government. History has plenty of examples of this and none of the examples are overly uplifting or in any way shape or form desirable.

True, a volunteer service is essentially very good for business, because in peacetime and without the prospect of unpredictable combat related loss of life and equipment, it can be run more or less as a corporation and with that the costs remain fairly predictable and at politically expedient levels. Wartime, even with a relatively low-intensity conflict as we currently have in Iraq, however is different. Losses in manpower and equipment are real and lead to crises that seriously threaten the viability of our armed services if only due to the required number of service personnel to keep it up in a predictably successful and qualitively high level of efficacy. As it stands, this nation is scraping the bottom of the barrel, because the numbers, both in volunteers as well as the cost of required logistics and loss-replacement, not to mention vateran after-care, simply are not there.

In my view, Mandatory National Service without ANY exception or deferment other than based on the mental capabilities of its potential participants is a practical, viable as well as a desirable possibility that provides benefits both to its participants as well as to the Great Nation that they serve, regardless of its government. That way participants get to contructively contribute for the privilege of enjoying the opportunity of living in a free and just society, like I did when I performed and benefitted from mine. At the time I looked at it as paying my 'cost of doing business' upfront and I still do.

you want to end the war? draft females only and send 3000 home in body bags..we would be out of there tomorrow....

Nope, grump is right, and EarlyBird is a fine citizen, but wrong. I would have said the opposite when I was 40 or 50, but now I have lived long enough to change my mind, seeing that grump is right.

Well done both of you, I'd love to have you both for neighbors, but I side with grump. He says it better than I. Good posts, both..

ps We're not leaving Iraq. Have we left Germany Korea, Japan, Turkey, or any of the other 750 military bases we have overseas? Know any other nations with military bases on our soil? Don't kid yourself, we're not going anywhere. Military Hegemony is the whole point.