Having just spent Thanksgiving in Canada with a bunch of reasonable (if very liberal) educated people who treated me (a person who deeply loathes both parties and the whole political establishment in the US) as a whipping boy for their rage against the US, I doubt anyone wants to be in our Empire either.

Canada may be the single country closest culturally to the US on the entire planet and I think there is a lot more fear/hatred/disgust there right now than there is admiration. They even brought up the Finnish winter war of 1939 to point out what might happen if the US ever tries to attack Canada.

I don't think anywhere in the world really sees the US as a model to follow that has not been forced to at the point of a gun, which is another similarity we share with the Russians. Obviously there are a lot of differences too, and ours is a much preferable system, but people in crystal houses probably shouldn't throw stones at those with glass ones and whatnot.

:)

I've disliked the Bush Administration as much as any other American. That being said, any such high level of fear/hatred/disgust from your Canadian friends frankly says more about them than it does about us. For almost two centuries now, we've had prosperous, peaceful relations with Canada, and yet your friends (I don't pretend to imagine that it's that widespread up there) have the gall to pretend to be afraid or disgusted with *us*? When have they been there for us? It's struggle enough as it is to keep a Canadian presence at all in Afghanistan - the country whose regime harbored the men who attacked us on 9/11. Where's the solidarity there?

By all means, the tragic blunders and crimes of our government should be called out - and who then better by but our friends - and yet, and yet, it has to be a reasonable, rational critique - and pretending that the world has more to fear from us than the myriad thugs and tyrants around the world is deeply insulting.

So if you need talking points for your next trip up north... there are plenty ;)

The spoiled brats have enjoyed our defense umbrella for 75 years as well.

That they imagine the U.S. would attack them kinda precludes your characterization of them as "reasonable." I'm sure they're very nice, but your other respondents have done a good job of expressing my thoughts.

Did you at least say "You're welcome for Obama?"

Most Canadians I know are very reasonable individuals. I suspect the comments were from Canadians of the ilk that we routinely have to suffer on these boards.

No country wants to be part of American empire simply because very few countries would wish to be part of any empire. However, I do find it instructive to note that the vast majority of liberal democracies on the planet have an affinity with the United States that goes beyond one administration or the other. The likes of Russia or China can never hope to achieve anything approaching that relationship. Indeed, I think that America gets so much stick from the rest of the world, because when America mucks up people feel let down. People hold America to a different standard precisely because it has generally held itself to a higher standard. They look to America as a great and fundamentally good nation, and when it departs from that in any way, the reaction of the world is more vitriolic than that which occurs when, say, Moscow or Beijing commit far greater transgressions. As for your Canadian friends, there are anti-American reactionaries everywhere. There were those who railed against the evil of American style capitalism and and salivated at the glorious workers paradise in the Soviet Union, whilst Uncle Joe was murdering millions of his own people. I'm guessing that your Canuck friends share a similar, pathological hatred of America with those old Lefties.

And considering the insane little political crisis going on in Canada's government at the moment, you should add that whole metaphor about people in glass houses.

Also, as a point of interest, America-hatin' is nothing new. It's been a prevelant attitude throughout the world even during the so-called hallowed Clinton years, and with the Bush administration, people just have more ills to latch onto.

A poster above said that the world holds America to a different standard, and I believe this is disturbingly true. The world doesn't want America to be a police man-and yet, during the tsunami in South East Asia, the United States was criticized above all other nations for not sending more aid, even though it'd already sent more than many other countries. During the economic turmoil of September, everyone pointed fingers at the States, which is note worthy because no other country raised the red flag of their own in the months previous. Americans should be furious with our government's lack of oversight and our fellow citizens' greed, but why did Icelanders turn to demand responsibility of the States when it was Britain that caused their own economic collapse? The only mention I saw of this was 1 article in the New York Times.

You might do well to remind your friends, additionally, that Thanksgiving is a time for, ya know, thanks, and Christmas is a time to extend good will towards your fellow human being-not bash them upside the head with your own irrate political soliloquoy.

A poster above said that the world holds America to a different standard, and I believe this is disturbingly true. The world doesn't want America to be a police man...

I've heard that claim before, but realistically what they mean is they don't want there to be the need for a policeman, or perhaps that they'd prefer if they had more control over the policeman's actions.

Various events world wide prove there is still the need for a global cop. They also prove that no other country or combination of countries is up to putting on those shoes.

Becephalus,

Your Canadian hosts seemed to fancy an armchair guerrilla war against an invading U.S. Were they aware that Canada fought a war against the U.S., albeit as a British colony rather than under the Maple Leaf flag, and had the distinction of joining in the burning of Washington?

You should have asked them if they had voted in the recent U.S. elections. Upon reminding you that they were ineligible for such an honor, you then should have reminded them that this was their problem to solve or savor as they wished. Naturally, some would have bragged about their ineligibility. You could then have pointed out the paradox of their position: on the one hand complaining about their impotence in the face of American might while on the other hand boasting about that same impotence. How would they resolve such a paradox ... or were they savoring it like the intellectual masochists which they really were?

This was after the Americans invaded Canada and burned York (Modern Toronto).

You got to remember the oppressive piggish slave mongering Tories in New England fled the USA for Canada when we whipped their aristocratic asses during the American Revolution. There is certain elements in Canada that traditionialy find reasons, any old reasons, to be negative and hatefull toward the USA. Also it helps promote their National Identity of being NotAmericans.

Nobody wants to be part of somebodies else's empire, to be exploited for others benifit.. That's why Empires are created by force useing imperial armies who extract their pay and maintinence from the counquered.

Also, as a point of interest, America-hatin' is nothing new. It's been a prevelant attitude throughout the world even during the so-called hallowed Clinton years, and with the Bush administration, people just have more ills to latch onto.

//////////////////////////////­//////////////////////////////­//////////////////////////////­//////////////////////////////­/////////////////////////////

Ever read the Ugly American a 1958 political novel by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer?

In South America people are irritated by the Venezuelans for much the same reasons.