enter the fray: our reader discussion forum
Search in:
Advanced
View:FlatThreaded
Prop 8 in California
by foobar

Ah-Ha-ha-ha-ha-Ha !

We all know irony can be cruel, but who knew it could also be so sweet?

heh heh

Re: Prop 8 in California
by Clearvoice
Gonna take that sentiment to Massachusettes?
Re: Prop 8 in California
by kedo76
While you are at it, tell all the gay people they can still get married in Mass., and not to let the door hit on the way out!! C ya. Cold over there, better pack well.
Re: Prop 8 in California
by Clearvoice

And in Pennsylvania, and Hawaii, and Canada...

hey, how's that Scooter Libby pardon project goinfor 'ya?

Re: Prop 8 in California
by ayalonValley

>>Ah-Ha-ha-ha-ha-Ha !

>>heh heh

all these happy feelings at other people losing their rights do not come from a nice place

ugly, ugly.

Re: Prop 8 in California
by m37652s

It should be pointed out that the only right (singular) taken away from homo-sexuals was the right to get married. They are still allowed to have Civil Unions (or, as it's actually called there, Domestic Partnership) in the state of California. It's just not allowed to be called a Marriage.

A case of semantics by all accounts. One that really shouldn't matter, but does. Kind of like the question: Is it better to call a black person "Black" or "African-American?"

Re: Prop 8 in California
by npr1
Ah, but it doesn't have the dramatic flourish of 'losing their rights'.
Re: Prop 8 in California
by m37652s

npr1:
Ah, but it doesn't have the dramatic flourish of 'losing their rights'.

Which would bring up the completely wrong, but utterly amusing, hypothetical of a voter initiative of having a constitutional amendment saying all black people are henceforth referred to as African Americans. Would there be an uproar of black people proclaiming they are losing their right to be black?

Re: Prop 8 in California
by erratica_1

No "marriage," yes "civil union."

Sounds like "separate but equal" to me. And we all know how that turned out...

Re: Prop 8 in California
by m37652s
erratica_1:

No "marriage," yes "civil union."

Sounds like "separate but equal" to me. And we all know how that turned out...

Yep. That is an accurate and apt analogy. It is separate but equal.

Keep in mind, though, that while discriminating someone based on something they have no control over is wrong. Discriminating someone based on one of their choices is human nature. Until the presiding majority concludes homosexuality is not a choice, but something people are born into, such a thing will stand.
Re: Prop 8 in California
by Arashi

Anti-discrimination laws do not just protect people for traits "they are born into." If that were the case, there would be no protection for the free exercise of religion, speech, or political opinion.

A straight, up-or-down, majoritarian vote on one group's rights is a scary thing. There are many groups that have been on the receiving end of majoritarian justice - Mormons, Chinese, Jews, and so on.

Mormons, in particular, have a short memory. Heck I'm 28, was raised Catholic, and was taught at church that Mormons were not Christian and were worse than pagans.

Re: Prop 8 in California
by imrastro

Arashi, I am an attorney in California. Your post is exactly right. By the way, I'm also Catholic and I realize that the only thing that protects my right to practice that religeon is the seperation of church and state combined with the equalprotection cluse both of which are significantly weakened by the passage of prop 8.

Ah well. Shortsightedness combined with fear and hatred is a powerful mix.

Re: Prop 8 in California
by m37652s

Anti-discrimination laws do not just protect people for traits "they are born into." If that were the case, there would be no protection for the free exercise of religion, speech, or political opinion.

Quite untrue, I'm afraid. While you have the right to say whatever you want, you don't have the right to not be affected negatively by what you say. A man who decides to say "I hate niggars and kikes." in a bar downtown, would likely be fired from his job should his employer find out about it. And noone would think twice about siding with the employer if he sued. However, 60 years ago, the same thing cannot be said.

As for exercising religious freedoms, people will still be brought to court for animal cruelty for sacrificing an animal in the name of their religion. Granted, most get off, but it still happens. Not to mention the present (and continuing) discrimination (and prosecution) against Mormons for their belief in Polygamy.

It all depends on what the majority of people in an area believe. People may not like it, but that is the way America works. And right now, people believe that homosexuality is a choice. And it's not something that deems the legal term of marriage for. It may be wrong, and people may not like it. But if homosexuals feel so angry, perhaps they'll march across America from San Fransisco to DC like others who have had their rights kept from them.

But, even if such a thing were to happen, until homosexuality is pervasively viewed as not a choice, but something people are born into, the RIGHT to marry, will likely not be given across the board.

African Americans dealt with separate but equal for 20 years. Angrily, but they did. It seems that homosexuals will have to do the same. For how long, though, is up to them.

Re: Prop 8 in California
by Becephalus

The problem with the choice argument is two fold

a: it is not clear at all it is a choice fro anecdotal or scientific evidence. Personally I have known several gay people well and some of them seemed clearly to have made the decsion as a lifestyle choice and some of them were learly born into it IMO.

b: Using the choice argument reeks badly of bigotry as it implies that if blacks had been able to change their skin color they should have and absent thhem doing so it would have been perfectly acceptable to punish them for not doing so. Not a position I think anyone would defend today.

Overall thoguh I have a hard time gettign worked up over this isue as in 25 years the people who voted yes will be looked on with the same disdain we now have for segregationists. Among people under 30 this is a complete non-issue.

View as RSS news feed in XML