It's not just that the Republicans have made little effort to overturn Roe v. Wade in nearly thirty years since Reagan was elected president. Being pro-life goes beyond outlawing abortion and putting women and/or their doctors in jail. Democratic economic policies that support full employment, higher incomes for people who work for a living and better access to contraception would do a lot to lower the abortion rate.

That's not to mention that opposing war and the death penalty are also great ways to be pro-life.

Its possible to simultaneously be Pro-Life AND Pro-Choice.

That's what the GOP doesn't get.

there is no choice. It is a baby. Get a clue. Don't get pregnant in the first place.

KNULL1123:

there is no choice. It is a baby. Get a clue. Don't get pregnant in the first place.

And that pretty much sums up the Republican position on family planning.....

The simplification of issues and partisan approaches makes real issues subrreal. Every individual in this country is accorded equality under the law, but the law never results to be equally applicable. The paradox is clear, maybe not to all, that the remedies are established with the intent to be applied equally. The defect resides in the lack of knowledge about how to defend one-self or maybe about the complexity of the system that only few can master. We have an imperfect system, but it still better than some other systems in which there is no hope for anyone to correct errors and to improve the share of their citizens. Nothing is black and white, we live in a colorful world of ideas and opinions, every individual is correct to conclude a thought and to expressed respecting others, as we have the right to disagree. As there are those that remain out of the discussion, the variety of opinion is as diverse as we are. My point is that there are issues that only concern to a particular gender, as in this case "Abortion." In my opinion is an issue that should be debated by women and concern to women since the end result is carried by women alone. How could we feel if the issue of vasectomy was discussed and decided by women? Now, Abortion has a heavier burden on women than vasectomy could have on men. There is not any other single issue that could have a debastating effect, one way or the other that the freedom of choice for women to act one way or another. As a country build on the separation of church and state, we must get read of prejudices carried by religious ideas, we must stop being exclusionaries and we should fight for the freedom of every individual to choose their path, and their own destiny. Abortion, Gay Marriage, Divorce, etc. are issues that burden segments of the population without affecting all of us, why should we deny others the freedoms that we enjoy. Who are we to choose for others? Who are we to impose our ideas on others? I may not like any of those ideas or choices, but who am I to tell others to follow my way of thinking as if I am absolutely right? Lets forge a happier society, we must respect others and realize that not even our views of the supreme being are universally shared. Let's be Pro-Freedom and focus in better ways to improve society.

Your belief - ok

but every waking moment we make choices about how we control our bodies. To pretend otherwise is to ignore reality.

All you want is for the woman to always choose to surrender her reproductive organs to the fetus. OK. Its still a choice to do that.

Don't be prejudist, there is no sum of the Republican Party as there is non about the Democratic Party, I know decent people in both parties that have very open ideas about individual freedoms. Also I know people from both parties that are fanatically opossed to such individual freedoms. Most of those that hold extreme thoughts are also intolerant religious fanatics. Believe me, that is why, Obama, Biden Ticket and McCain, Palin Ticket, do not discuss abortion, immigration and gay marriage, the four share similar ideas, but also the four knows that discussing those issues mean political suicide. Remember real issues can not be treated as if it was a football game.

Do not pretend what we think. Women must have the freedom to decide if to continue or halt pregnancy. Not only that women as the most discriminated gender in humanity must endure the results of other person actions, but the burden always is heavily on women's shoulders. Society still not aware of how to accord women equality. As a man I am aware that women work harder and longer than men in every aspect of life. Believe me, there is plenty of reasons to be thankful for not being a woman, this is not derogative, I admire how women manage to survive and how creative they are in order to pretend being equal. If you are careful to observe you will see how different life is for both genders. To those that will add to the discussion that it is not easy for those that carry a diferent life style, still women have it harder.

I take it you don't read in threaded mode.

May I suggest - from some 30 years in dealing in the online world (I started on IBM system 360s) - that you break up your writing in groupings of about 5-10 lines for readability. Unlike paper, electronic screens are hard to read large blocks of text on.

So even if it isn't a full paragraph, break it up with a whitespace line.

"there is no choice. It is a baby. Get a clue. Don't get pregnant in the first place. "

OK, knull...then the repuglitards should just make fornication illegal without a permit and punish those who perform it. If you ban choice (by banning abortion and birth control) this is the only option left to them. How do you enforce that? Electronic monitors? The repug base would not stand for that (no more new repugs) and what would joe and jane six-pack for for entertainment? And how would they support themselves without those gov't checks for all those kids they don't want? I knew a typical joe and jane six-pack...eight kids (all skinny, dirty and poorly clothed) while the parents wore new clothes and diamonds and drove new cars...something to aspire to, for repugs.

KNULL1123:

there is no choice. It is a baby. Get a clue. Don't get pregnant in the first place.

gosh...don't get pregnant...that is such great advice...you really understand the scope of the issue.

i am more conservative than not and i get it...choice to choose to carry a pregnancy to term or not...it is not the job of the govt to tell women what they may or may not do with their own bodies...i think plenty of conservatives do understand...and are discouraged that it is even an issue...if the republicans want to represent conservatives, they should be advocating less govt intereference not more...

hmm... I really like this discussion here. I've been wanting to get some more.

As an evangelical christian I am confused by the alignments here. To me, my humanism compels me to be careful about the exercise of power over other humans. I think in general, you stand up for the little guy or girl. And in general, this puts me with the Democrats.

But I can't see how the pro-choice position deny any personhood of the fetus. The number of persons in the womb varies from 0 before conception to 1 at birth; and sure there's a large proportion that fail, so I can see how you could argue that the morning after pill is probabilistically only a 50% or less termination. But still - if we want to preserve the life of death row inmates, or extend the lives of those with terrible illness and injury, I can't see how humanists can discount that person assembling in the womb. Sure its a fetus now, but it'll get better - just give it time.

I also have to say that I find in God a more sensitive moral judge than I expect in posterity. I actually think Christianity is a moral world in which abortion is possible, in which you make the choice you think best for human flourishing in the expectation of the judgment of God. I think its a christian position to say a woman should have a choice, and in the case of rape or sexual abuse a termination might be appropriate. Maybe we'd get it wrong, but I don't think its completely off-limits.

Obviously I'm at odds with the whole world - what has my education lacked? Happy to get pointers on good reading materials.

"Obviously I'm at odds with the whole world - what has my education lacked? Happy to get pointers on good reading materials."

You seem to honestly be trying to understand another point of view. That's rare. Are you male? That's where I find most of the base misunderstandings. It is so difficult for most men to put themselves in a woman's place who might become pregnant either accidentally or against her will.

Unless ofcourse, they've been raped themselves.