On the contrary , Walt and Meirsheim got it right in their book the Israel Lobby. Two polls found that the elected representatives in Washington rated the Israel Lobby as the 2nd most powerful lobby group they faced.They feared the Israel Lobby as Pres J.Carter pointed out because it could get them thrown out of office if they did not support Israel or could prevent them from getting elected in the first place.

The book proved that USA`s middle East policies are controlled by the Lobby and are not in the best interest of the USA. What has Israel done for the USA in 60 years to be touted as a great allay (other than accept an annual gift of ~$3 B from the US tax payer that is deviously called foreign aid) ? The allay myth is a PR campaign by the Lobby to mislead the US electorate. The allay myth is as big a lie as the Bush/Cheney/Libby/Wolfowitz/Fe­ith/Perle/Wurmser/ et al need to invade Iraq , which was a goal high on Israel`s wish list.

Roll back the borders of the Jewish state to the UN mandate of 1948 and let the Palestinian refugees come home as mandated in the agreement that created the Jewish homeland at the expense of Palestinians. ie. Two states of about equal size with a contiguous Palestinian state free of Israeli control.

If the bible had suggested that California was the "Jewish Promised Land" would US citizens be happy living in refugee camps in Nevada for 60 years ?

A Canadian Friend

The Israel Lobby merely followed the Irish Lobby, which helped win the Republic's independence. It also helped promote the "Bonds for Ireland," which inspired "Bonds for Israel." Later it was accused of gathering support for the IRA, with most of the accusations coming from Brits like you (well, Canadians are SORT of British, anyway).

You write:

"If the bible had suggested that California was the "Jewish Promised Land" would US citizens be happy living in refugee camps in Nevada for 60 years ?"

1. There would be no need for US citizens to live in refugee camps. They would be happy and productive in the Jewish Promised Land, California.

2. If an American learns that he will not get a raise this year, he immediately starts looking for another job. If he is living in Florida, he is happy to move to Alaska. He is happy to do that year after year. Why can't the d**ned Palestinians learn the same thing? Move. Go where the money is. Forget Israel.

"2. If an American learns that he will not get a raise this year, he immediately starts looking for another job. If he is living in Florida, he is happy to move to Alaska. He is happy to do that year after year..."

LOL! Total, fucking, bullshit.

Roll back the borders of the Jewish state to the UN mandate of 1948 and let the Palestinian refugees come home as mandated in the agreement that created the Jewish homeland at the expense of Palestinians. ie. Two states of about equal size with a contiguous Palestinian state free of Israeli control.

Question: If we did that, which do you think would happen:

A) The Palestinians would peacefully accept this and live peaceably with their Jewish neighbors, sharing joint control of Jerusalem?

Or

B) Hamas and Hezbollah would vow to continue their bombing campaigns until the last Jew is either dead or forced to leave the Middle East?

>> If we did that, which do you think would happen<<

I think that both sides would continue to revel in their hatred of each other. BOTH sides would attack each other, and both would lie and claim their attacks are only in self-defense. JUST LIKE THEY BOTH DO NOW.

Hatred is a hobby for those people. And if you think, by "those people", that I'm trying to insult or ridicule, you're a smart cookie and deserve a gold star.

dingle_derry_doo:

>> If we did that, which do you think would happen<<

I think that both sides would continue to revel in their hatred of each other. BOTH sides would attack each other, and both would lie and claim their attacks are only in self-defense. JUST LIKE THEY BOTH DO NOW.

Hatred is a hobby for those people. And if you think, by "those people", that I'm trying to insult or ridicule, you're a smart cookie and deserve a gold star.

I'll put you down as answering "B" then.

Of course, your post sounds like hatred is also your hobby.

It would only be partial justice for Palestinians if the UN mandate borders were restored but half a loaf is better than none. The ethnic cleansing (800,000 Palestinians pushed off their land and made into refugees) that took place in 1948 by the Zionists to make a Jewish state with a Jewish majority plus to expand beyond the borders set out in the UN mandate was/is a travesty. The state of Israel even in 1948 was never at military risk. Historians have debunked the PR campaign about which side , Arabs or Israelis, were in danger back then. The PR campaign continues to this day and for the same reasons. ie To allow Israel to continue its ethnic cleansing which is an official policy of Israel. ie Move those d** Arabs out of our country.

The USA (via the Israel Lobby) supports a terrorist state=Israel. The US people have no real interest in Israel but until the connections between the Lobby and getting elected to Washington are broken this will continue.

By the way , rolling back the borders would include handing Jerusalem back to the UN. It is supposed to be an international city , not the occuppied capital it is. Even today the UN maintains a small office in Jerusalem waiting for the Israelis to withdraw.

Not so my friend. The official policy of Israel is have a homeland that is a minimum 80% Jewish so most Californians would have to leave/be pushed/flee the state of Israel/California. eg. Be in refugee camps in Nevada.

Israel`s current predicament of the growing Arab population inside Israel is a danger to the 80% Jewish goal. That keeps the Zionists up at nights and the Jewish settlers displacing more Palestinians from their homes.

It amazes me that there are people opposed to Israel.

Israel was settled not only by refugees from Europe,

but also by refugees from arab persecution and antisemitism.

Around 850,000 had to flee Arab countires and about

600,000 setlled in Israel. The so called palestinian nationality had its beginning with Haj al Husseini, the grand

mufti of jerusalem. Yasser Arafat called him the spiritual

founder of palestinian nationalism. He was also responsible

for the pogroms in Jerusalem and Hebron in 1929

and again in Jerusalem in 1936. He went to Iraq

in 1940 and organized a pogram there. During WW2 he

took refuge in Nazi Germany and was a personal friend of Heinrich Himmler. In 1943 he organized the Hanser battalion

of the Waffen SS, moslem thugs who murdered thousands.

Jews, Serbs, and moslems who didn't agree with him.

(of which there were many)

The spiritual founder of palestinian nationalism was a wanted

war criiminal who fled to Egypt after the war, There were many links between arab nationalism and the nazis. Many documents were found in Germany after the

war linking arab fascists to the nazis.

The historical raison d'etre of palestinian nationalism

is the genocidal racism of the mufti and his cohorts.

The historical raison d'etre of palestinian nationalism

is the genocidal racism of the mufti and his cohorts.

So I gather that you don`t deny that Israel was founded by terrorists at the expense of the native population of Palestine. ie Whatever happened to Jews in other countries at the hands of other people is full justification for the Zionist actions in Palestine. Two wrongs don`t usually make a right.

As to the actions of "the mufti and his cohorts" Your history lesson is mostly about what happened outside of Palestine. It is the other 99.99% of the native Palestinian population that has paid the price of the Zionist invasion and occupation of THEIR land. It has been pointed out that the Israeli Arabs live in an apartheid regime. They are 2nd class citizens with many layers of Zionist laws set to limit their ability to improve their lot .eg. Less access to water, education ,,jobs, the ability to buy/use land etc, etc. Would you be happy living as a servant in your own house ?

I don`t blame the Palestinians for their struggle. The Israel leopard must change its spots by separating the synagogue from the state. A secular country could see the injustice it has committed if it wasn`t bound up in silly religious myths like "God gave us this land".

Terrorists? All the land the Jews acquired before 1948 was purchased legally. They

didn’t have the power to evict anyone, the territory was under British control and

the British weren’t sympathetic to the Jews in the 20's. 30's, and 40's.

But there were plenty of evictions by force of Jews by arab terrorists.

Hebron and Gaza are examples. The British looked the other way.

Yes there was the Irgun and Stern gang. But the prize for terrorism goes to

the Mufti and his cohorts. Jewish militias such as the Haganah were created to

protect against terrorist arab raids starting in 1922.

Outside of Israel. No A great deal of arab racism and terror occurred within the

what are now the borders of Israel. And the irony is that Arab terrorism and racism

was next to the Nazis, the reason why Israel was populated.

It was the Arabs who rejected the partition plan of 1947. It was the Arabs who

initiated hostilities and vowed to push the Jews into the sea.

"silly religious myths like "God gave us this land" I agree. But talk to the Mullahs

also. They preach that the infidel (the jews are in their land nonsense). If you want to talk about religious fanaticism it’s Islam you should be more concerned about.

I don’t presume to know God’s will but Islam clerics certainly think they do.

Israel is the historical home, centuries before the Moslems. That’s historical fact.

APARTHEID???? What unmitigated nonsense. Let’s compare the treatment of

Arabs who remained in Israel after 1948 with those who left. The ones who left

were denied basic rights and confined to refugee camps by their Arab hosts. From 1948 to

1967 the so called Palestinians in those camps were treated as noncitizens by Arabs.

No one babbled about apartheid then.

The Arabs living in Israel were given full Israeli citizenship. So what are you talking about?

Yes there was discrimination against them, but it pales in significance to the treatment

their fellow arabs gave them from 1949 t0 1967

The so called restrictions, the security wall were not in place until the terror began.

Before that time many Palestinians were able to travel and work in Israel.