I notice how all of you like to delve into controversial items so here is one for you. It is a little on topic w/LW #1. This is a long story but I will try to keep it as short as possible.

I have a male friend who seems to have a penchant for picking the wrong woman.

His first wife was his high school sweetheart whom he married at 16 . She was pregnant at the time. Throughout the years they had three children, the first two with MS. When she got pregnant with the third child he went and got a vasectomy (17 years ago). The lab kept some of his sperm. When he divorced her he found out that two of the kids weren't even his. He was military and not always around so subsequently she was screwing around on him when he wasn't around. He voluntarily chose to support them as he was the only father that they knew.

He remarried a few years ago. They have two children that they adopted. The second marriage had become rocky due to in-law interference and his wife siding with her parents over him on everything and he informed her that he wanted to get a divorce. She was ready to leave until she found out that she was not going to get custody of the adopted children (and child support). Then she vowed that she would work on the marriage and he decided to give it a chance. Things worked out for a little while and then they just went back to the way it was. As he was talking divorce again she decided that she wanted to have a baby and went to a fertility specialist. She informed him that the specialist said that even though he has a vasectomy they could extract the sperm and artificially inseminate. He informed her that he did not want any more children and even if he did he didn't want to bring any more children into an unstable marriage and was not willing to go through the procedure. Not too long after that he received a call at work from her telling him that she is pregnant and that it is his child. She claimed to have contacted the lab that had his sperm and was artificially inseminated. He was in total shock. Well, being the person that he is, if there was any chance that the child was his he was not going to leave so he was willing to try to work things out. She would not give him any information as to where she went to be artificially inseminated and investigations into the situation led him nowhere so after the child was born he had a DNA test done and found out that the child is not his. He then found out that she used sperm from someone with his ethnic background hoping that if the child looked enough like him he would be too stupid to be tested. Now they are in the middle of a divorce. He has been given full custody of the adopted children and she has full custody of the baby and neither have to pay support. They had a pre-nup and she is not entitled to anything but the court states that she can live in the house until the divorce is final. She pays no bills, he supports her and her child as she works a home business and claims that it doesn't make any money. She is doing anything that she can to stall the divorce hoping (as she told a friend) that he will reconsider and reconcile. She knows that even though the child isn't his, he has fallen in love with the child and it seems that she is hoping that he will stay with her to keep the child with him.

Now I am not friends with her but I worked with him and did get a chance to talk to her at a company function. She discussed having a home business and how she preferred working for herself as opposed to working for someone else. I made a comment on how someone has to pay the bills and she stated that is what my friend was for. She also stated that she didn't think he was making enough money and he should find a new job that paid better or find a second job.

I am not stating that LW #1 is using the child to hold on to him but there are devious women out there that will do anything and say anything to get what they want.

I'm pretty sure we all know women like this. I have a friend who joined the military at 18. He had been having problems with his high school girlfriend wanting a bigger commitment from him than he wanted so he was relieved to get out of town. I'm not quite sure what happened here but half way through boot camp we got a wedding announcement from the girlfriend - they were getting married on his first leave. Ok.

So 6 months after the marriage he says it was a crazy thing to have done, he wanted a divorce. She went down to his base to 'talk' to him about it and one week later she was telling everybody she was pregnant. Surprise, surprise, he decided he couldn't divorce her then. Four years later when he did divorce her (after she had racked up all the debt under his name she could) - still no baby, no miscarraige, no nothing. She just brushed off the baby talk anytime people asked her what ever happened with that.

He married badly. I'm sure he knows that. In fact, he seems to have married the same woman twice. The fact that he did this suggests that he needs to get his head together or even a little counseling before he embarks on another relationship. There's something about these women that draws him, and if he can figure out what it is, then he can avoid them in the future.

While the women in his life have walked all over him, HE LET THEM. If he was a woman, married to two abusive/creepy/bad-tempered/al­oof/lazy/just plain wrong men in a row, then I'd give her the same advice. Stop and consider before getting involved again.

He has no choice about paying expenses until the divorce is final. That's the way it is all over, and let's face it, he doesn't want the consequences if he doesn't pay. Since his wife has no income to speak of and no stake in the house, it's his credit rating that will circle the drain if he refuses to pay.

This is what I'd tell a friend:

1. Date. Different people. Don't latch on to the first woman that interests him.

2. DO NOT move in together until they have known each other for at least six months to a full year. This sounds harsh by some standards, but he has to know what he's getting into and that takes time.

3. DO NOT marry until he has been with this person for TWO full years. This shouldn't be too tough. If the woman in question pushes to get married earlier and doesn't want to wait, he should be suspicious. If they love each other enough to marry, then waiting shouldn't be any hardship at all, right?

He's not having any more kids, so that isn't an issue. If the relationship turns out to be a mistake, it'll be a lot cheaper to extricate himself from it if he doesn't have to go through a divorce court.

4. He needs to force his wife into court. Tell him to get his lawyer to request a court date and not to cancel it. Claim that he's going through undue hardship by having to pay rent and support for a child that isn't his. Anything to get things moving. If she doesn't show up, then his life becomes easier. If he does this, he'll find the expense well worth it.

Yeah, the funny thing about it was while they were dating she had a great paying job. Helped with the finances and everything. Perfect wife material. How quickly that changed once they got married. He is so in debt because of her and it seems like she is either trying to hold on to him (to continue to support her and her child) or hold on until he loses everything since she can't get her hands on anything.

Recently, he was laid off and he took care of her child because she didn't have the faintest idea what to do and didn't want to be bothered when she was so called busy, and now that he is back to work she does nothing but complain about how she has no time to do anything because she has to chase the child all day. He just throws it back in her face telling her that she wanted the child and she needs to deal with it.

I really feel sorry for the child because when their divorce is final she is going to be alone with a parent who seems to have only had her to hold on to a good thing. The one good thing though is that he is fighting for visitation rights and a social worker has already told her that if she tries to keep her daughter away from him and her other siblings she will set her and her siblings back emotionally.

You are right, and I did just recently tell him that. She got away with everything because he allowed her to. He agreed with me.

They actually dated for two years and lived together about one year of that two. She had a great paying job and assisted with the bills while they were living together.

They actually were supposed to go to court ordered counseling for six months. He went and has the paperwork to prove it. She never went.

His lawyer has been pushing. Unfortunately right now divorce court in our area is way behind. We had a judge pass away and it has backed everything up. I have already been through arbitration myself and the arbitrator made the recommendation for the judge to sign the divorce and that was over 9 months ago and I am still waiting for the final decree. Mine was simple we both wanted out and it was very congenial.

The problem now is that her lawyer defied a court order claiming that she was doing it pending appeal even though the appeal had been thrown out because she didn't file it in the allotted time. So the judge threw her off the case and now she has to obtain a new lawyer. So she can stall on that until the judge gets fed up and forces her to do it immediately.

Are you sure you're getting the whole story? The moment she claimed to have used his reserve sperm, I'd have had a lawyer call whoever was storing it and threatening legal action. Once they confirmed that they did NOT illegally release his sperm without his (own, personal) authorization, he'd have been free to divorce. Even his wife has no legal right to use it without his signature.

Definitely his lawyer should refuse any further delays. If he's not using a lawyer, he's an idiot. He also needs to quit babysitting her kid. It makes the kid bond to him, increasing his guilt, and gives her ammunition against him leaving.

IncogNeato:

Are you sure you're getting the whole story? The moment she claimed to have used his reserve sperm, I'd have had a lawyer call whoever was storing it and threatening legal action. Once they confirmed that they did NOT illegally release his sperm without his (own, personal) authorization, he'd have been free to divorce. Even his wife has no legal right to use it without his signature.

Definitely his lawyer should refuse any further delays. If he's not using a lawyer, he's an idiot. He also needs to quit babysitting her kid. It makes the kid bond to him, increasing his guilt, and gives her ammunition against him leaving.

Well, she did not get his sperm, as a matter of fact when he finally did get ahold of the lab that had it they informed him that they would never have given it to anyone as they held on to it for medical purposes only due to the MS situation in his first marriage.

He is using a lawyer. She has a had a better one with connections being paid for by her parents. That is how her lawyer thought she got away with filing an appeal after the time was up. The new judge disavowed her of that, told her she willfully defied a court order and kicked her off the case. So now she has to get a new lawyer which will of course delay things again.

It would be great if life was so simple that he could ignore a little child in his house that follows him around. What is crueler, to totally ignore a child who through no fault of their own is in that situation or to bond with that child and fight for visitation rights.

Hey donnamp; something about your command of the details here makes me suspect you're involved with the guy, so my unsolicited advice would be to beware. Feel free to let me have it if I"m wrong, but even if you're not actually involved, you seem to be serving as the counselor for this guy. He better be a pretty good friend, to be worth all the drama he's throwing your way on this one.

He's got a prenup and a vasectomy, custody of their kids, and a ton of evidence against her, if half of this is true, so I don't see how she can manipulate him from this point without his consent. Can he not afford an apartment for the rest of the divorce? Even here in Dallas, efficiencies can be had for $450-500 a month. Could the military send him somewhere else or provide him cheap housing for awhile? Has he cancelled the joint accounts and frozen his credit reports so she can't get more credit? (Most states allow that, btw for a $10 fee per bureau, unfortunately, I've got experience, there- ID theif opened up 10 accounts in my name a few years back).

Most people are on their best behavior for dating, but few sprout horns and a tail the day after marriage. Maybe guys are attracted to manipulative women for the excitement, or maybe as an excuse for lack of intimacy, or for lackluster life choices, or low self-esteem, or sympathy from others or to look better by comparison. Or maybe all these things, who knows. Same reasons so many women go for the toxic type. Some guys' cliche is to make it all out to be someone else's fault. Probably she is awful, but he sounds fairly complict to me. Good luck with it all, in any event!

alldenwall

He is my best friend. We have been friends for years, He was my shoulder to cry on when I started going through my divorce. Since we no longer work together we talk about once a week, sometimes more, sometimes less.

Unfortunately I am one of those people that attracts people who have problems, I always have because I am supposedly a good listener. Although I can be very blunt when someone is screwing up. Sometimes they appreciate it and sometimes they don't.

At this point he cannot afford to move out and into an apartment until the divorce is over. They have no joint accounts. His credit is so bad now that he can't even get anything on credit. He is no longer in the military, as a matter of fact he just retired the beginning of this year.

I totally agree that he has allowed her to manipulate him over the years but, in actuality the court system is manipulating him more than she is right now. We live in a community property state and the judge was not real happy about the pre-nup. So since she couldn't get anything from him (due to attempting to entrap him with the pregnancy) the judge ordered that she was allowed to live in the house if that was her choice until the divorce was final and that since he is sole owner of the house she is not responsible for any of the bills. So she is taking advantage of the situation. I am sure that the judge would have ordered him to hand over half of his savings and 401k if she wouldn't have done what she did since most of it was acquired during the marriage.

As I said, I did meet and talk to her a few times and every time that I did talk to her she complained that he wasn't making enough money and needed to get a better paying job (maybe she thought I would sympathize because we worked for the same company at the time) and she even mentioned one time that if he couldn't find a better paying job he should get another part time job. It wasn't as if she couldn't have gone out and gotten a part time job herself as the adopted children were in school all day or she could have worked in the evenings herself.

Thank your for your advice, I appreciate it. I will mention the credit thing to him though just in case.

Gaahk. Well, if he's going to burn the place down, tell him not to pour all the accellerant in the same place- it's a red flag. Seriously, though, I still recommend freezing the credit reports. Or better yet, sign up for a good monitoring service, and if she attempts to get credit, get the documentation and drag her back to court. (Monitoring services are GREAT, btw, my brother in law lived with us awhile back, until he swiped one of my credit cards and bought a tank of gas at 3 am- I knew it by 8:15. Shoulda seen his face!)

Well, right now he is just grinning and bearing it. There isn't much that his lawyer can do right now except push to make sure that she gets another lawyer quickly as opposed to stalling.

You seem to have had a lot of garbage happen to you too. Well thank you again for the advice.

alldenwall:

Can he not afford an apartment for the rest of the divorce? Even here in Dallas, efficiencies can be had for $450-500 a month. Could the military send him somewhere else or provide him cheap housing for awhile?

Military housing is the best bet. Hard to live in an efficiency with 2 kids, or even a 2-bedroom if they are opposite genders.