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Speech and counterspeech
by NFP Guy
+1 Reply

My bride participated in a life chain here in our area on Sunday, and had an unusual experience. Life chain is an event, for lack of a better word, where people spread out along the sidewalks of a community from one point to another to promote a pro-life viewpoint. I think they generally have signs, from what I remember from prior years, and it is primarily a visual, as opposed to vocal, witness. The participants are, I think, 50 to 100 feet apart, and are the links in the chain.

Anyway, she is standing on a public sidewalk in a generally residential neighborhood, just up the street from our parish church and close to the local university. Again, as I understand it, she is facing the street, as the idea is to witness to those driving by. The resident of the home in front of which she is standing comes out and asks her to leave "his" property. She stated that she was on public sidewalk and had a right to stay. He responded by saying that he would call out his dogs on her. My bride didn't respond and turned back to the street, although she was now really scared. My bride began to quietly sing a hymn because she was so upset. The guy got really agitated and started giving her a hard time. Then he went into his house and came out with pro-choice sheets of paper which he taped up to his house, and was yelling at her "don't you dare take these down!", like that was what my wife would do. He then went and got a video camera and began taping her -- while she was just standing there.

I am so aggravated by this whole thing. If the guy wants to put forth his point of view, OK, fine, that's free speech, marketplace of ideas and all, but I am angry because I don't think he would have done that if it was another guy that was in front of his house - - say, me, a former football player. I think it's total BS to pick on a lone woman. Real tough guy under that circumstance. Plus, there was another guy in the chain - - the next link down - - who wouldn't come over and stand with my wife. What the heck?

My initial reaction was to consider going over to the guy's house to have a little chat with him about this, but I can't exactly picture how to do that charitably (I am very protective of my bride). Upon reflection, I wonder where the guy's anger comes from, and what pain or hurt or experience in his life caused such a vehement reaction on his part to my wife. Typing this I am coming to believe I am called to forgive him, and it is one of the times that living the faith can be very difficult - - how exactly am I to love him as I love myself, and really feel/mean it? Anyway, that's one of my little faith adventures for the week.

(It you are wondering where NFP Guy was, I was at home, sitting in front of the house in the sun with the previously mentioned kitten, petting and grooming him, while our kids napped after a busy early afternoon of apple picking).

Re: Speech and counterspeech
by J.MADISON

Would you feel the same way if prochoise advocates were standing and doing the exact same thing in front of your property disrupting you peace in your own home ?Probably not.Btw ,disturbing the peace in a niehborhood is a crime.

Re: Sorry about you wifes experience but thats life!
by white light
it is always a shockwhen we go out there with love and good intension only to recieve a punch on the nose! Thats life :-) please update us on Puss Cat. Where it sleeps what the vet said and how your wifes sniffle are or are not what it eats ect ect ect
Re: Speech and counterspeech
by NFP Guy

Objection, your honor, assuming facts not in evidence. How exactly was anyone disturbing or disrupting the peace, J.?

And yes, if there was a "choice chain" standing on the public sidewalk in front of my house, I would recognize their right to speak their point of view, and I damn sure wouldn't threaten to send dogs after them. If there was any actual disturbing of the peace, I'd call the cops, not pick on one lone female. The fact that Mr. Tough Guy did not call the police to me says that there was no such disturbance.

I'm not sure we have a disturbing the peace offense per se in my state, but the disorderly conduct statute requires fighting or violent behavior (no), unreasonable noise (no), use of obscene language or gesture (no), or creation of a physically hazardous condition which serves no legitmate purpose (no), all done with the specific intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm (again, nothing my bride was doing remotely falls within this definition). I am not an expert on free speech matters (where are you, RonB52?) but nothing done would seem to implicate criminal conduct.

C'mon, J., you know that guy was not right to act the way he did toward my bride. If he wants to put up or hold counter-signs, great, speak out in opposition, great - - but it seems to me he was only taking the actions he did because he thought he could bully a woman.

Re: Sorry about you wifes experience but thats life!
by NFP Guy

My mom, who lives alone across town, is contemplating taking the kitten. It has been sleeping in a cat carrier in our kitchen. My daughter was sitting by the back door, wrapped up with the kitten in blanket, singing to the kitten and petting it this morning, so we are really hoping my mom will agree to take the kitten.

Re: Speech and counterspeech
by bugger

That's a toughie. I've seen those 'lifechains' before - sometimes they feature enormous pictures of bloody fetuses and such, and the "witnessing" is little more than shouting condemnation. If such an event was going on in front of my house, I'd be angry, really angry.

Anyway, I'll assume (because it seems like you're way more human than that) that this wasn't one of those 'lifechains'. Either way, it's bound to get tense when you bring the protest to someone's house. I'd call the cops and find out if it was legal to do in a residential neighborhood. If it was legal, I'd probably go out and talk to the people in front of my house, maybe put out a sign of my own. I certainly wouldn't let the event go unchallenged. Her body, her choice.

Violence and threats are never the answer. Some people learn that early in life, some later, some never. The guy sounds like a bully... I doubt there'd be anything to be gained by having a "little chat".

Re: Speech and counterspeech
by NFP Guy

You are correct that it was not one of "those" life chains. No pictures, no shouting, and really nothing verbalized in an organized way (just my bride singing to herself). When the guy first came out, she had her eyes closed in prayer, and didn't hear him at first.

The houses in that area all have pretty good size front lawns, so it is not like she was standing right outside the guy's window. As it is close to the university, I suspect there is more noise and disturbance every Friday and Saturday night as the undergrads make their way back to campus from the local watering holes. It is a busy street. I do not see this as "bringing it to someone's house"

Again, free speech is not an area I'm expert in, but it seems to me that whatever state or national organization coordinates the life chains has reviewed what is OK and what is not, and acts accordingly.

Re: Speech and counterspeech
by bugger

NFP Guy:
Upon reflection, I wonder where the guy's anger comes from, and what pain or hurt or experience in his life caused such a vehement reaction on his part to my wife. Typing this I am coming to believe I am called to forgive him, and it is one of the times that living the faith can be very difficult - - how exactly am I to love him as I love myself, and really feel/mean it? Anyway, that's one of my little faith adventures for the week.

We live in a violently polarized society these days. Maybe it's always been that way, but for a few moments of national pride and solidarity. I've been thinking lately about the "We Are All New Yorkers" slogan after 9/11 and how quickly we reverted back to "East Coast Elitist" v. "Joe Sixpack", almost as if we can't function without the black and white of 'us v. them'. For all the talk of a clean campaign and a new politics, this close race has turned evil awfully quickly. The crowd noise from the McPalin rallies scares and angers me.

Few things are as polarizing as the life/choice debate. I promise you that your wife doesn't feel any more strongly about it than I do.

Can I forgive the guy who yelled "Kill him!" in response to Palin's jab at Obama the other day? I don't think so.

Could I forgive someone who threatened my wife? I doubt it. It's to your credit that you're considering it.

Re: Speech and counterspeech
by Nanotech
Get her a cell phone.
Re: Sorry about you wifes experience but thats life!
by white light
Buy her a big bunch of red roses,
Sorry to hear
by Horus

..that you're wife's an anti-choice nut. I wouldn't have wanted her out front of my house "witnessing," either. Seems a gross invasion of someone else's privacy and personal POV to be doing so....a protester using my stage to speak from, as it were.

I wouldn't advise harassing the landowner, he'd be within his rights to call the law on you if you threatened him in any way.

Damn straight!
by Horus

If they want to protest in actual public places, like a park or in front of their church or something, fine, although they should get a permit as needed.

But in front of my house? Like hell!

For what purpose?
by Horus
So she could call the police on the landowner whose property she was misusing?
Re: I have to say that, though I am sorry that she
by white light
was frightened, I would probably been arrested if it had been out side my house! I would have had a bust up with somebody I am sure!
If he did in fact threaten to turn his dogs on her...
by JGC

,,,that constitutes simple assault, so yes: she would have been within her rights to call the police and report it.

If she was actually on his property he would of course had been able to accuse her of trespassing, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. Sidewalks are public.

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