The outcome of the first situation is predictable. A man who feels like he is just a paycheck to his family either has pretty serious emotional problems, or has a really good understanding of the nature of his marriage. Neither explanation bodes well for the wife and kids, and separation and alienation are inevitable.

I agree.

I think #4 should ask her mom WTH happened.

This must be Sad Letter Week.

I was LW1, and my daughter was LW4. The only difference is my ex isn't dead yet.

I'm sorry you went through that. I can't imagine a man giving me that kind of choice. I wouldn't be able to stay with him after that.

Don't let him hold you hostage any longer. Make him dead to your daughter and to yourself. He is what he is, but you have the ability to make your life and your daughter's life a lot better. Change your mindset and set yourself free.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I feel that the bad things in my life (including this experience) contributed to making me a better person today.

I just hope this woman, and other women in simiar situations, don't buckle to pressure. If they want the baby, they should have it, regardless. If they don't want the baby, but are willing for someone else to raise it, that's what they should do. I don't think they should be forced to bear one, either, if that's not their choice. A decision forced upon someone can lead to terrible repercussions later.

Abortion is definitely something couples should discuss before moving in together or marrying. A Pro-Life man shouldn't marry a Pro-Choice woman, for instance, and then insist she carry a child she doesn't want.

I was letter writer #1 too, except all my children were healthy and normal. My ex-husband told me if I didn't have an abortion with my first one he would leave me, so I said, "There's the door." But he didn't leave. Then I got pregnant again two years later and again he wanted me to have an abortion, although he gave in a little more easily the second time.

but it was me who finally ended the marriage, and he was shocked, just shocked that I would ever leave him. So we divorced and he pretty much divorced the kids as well. He moved out of state and only saw them very occasionally. I tried to do what I could to keep the doors open, but he was especially horrible and hurtful to them when it came time for them to go to college and ask him for some help.

I never said anything against him, re-married a guy who has been a great dad to them and now that they are in their 20's. Their dad is coming around and they are developing a relationship with him. I could not be happier. I want them to have a good relationship if they can and am grateful that the very selfish young man I was once married to has grown up in time to still have some time with them. He even told my son that he really regretted not spending more time with them when they were little. My son told me that for his dad to say this to him was HUGE.

So miracles do happen. It is sad when families don't heal their estrangements before someone dies. Life is too short. LW#4 may never know what really happened, but maybe if she talks to some people who knew and loved her dad, she will be able to understand, forgive and let go. I don't like reading all the letters where someone whose side of the story we have never heard gets called an "a--hole". We are all human, and most people, even Hitler, have other people who care about them, even if we don't.

Love your enemies, or if that is too difficult, at least pray for them.

IncogNeato:

A decision forced upon someone can lead to terrible repercussions later.

So what happens to the guy who is forced to be a daddy / lose his child at the whims of the woman? It is the men who are truly without power here. No need to worry about pressuring them into something, they have no voice in the process anyway.

Your final paragraph is the best solution that is out there but boy, I just can't help but have sympathy for a guy facing an unwanted pregnancy.

SusanM:

It is the men who are truly without power here. No need to worry about pressuring them into something, they have no voice in the process anyway.

Sure he did. He had the power to put on a condom and/or get a vasectomy if he didn't want kids. He has the knowledge to know that intercourse leads to babies. And knowledge IS power.

He should think about that next time he just wants to get his rocks off.

SusanM:

So what happens to the guy who is forced to be a daddy / lose his child at the whims of the woman? It is the men who are truly without power here. No need to worry about pressuring them into something, they have no voice in the process anyway.

That poor man who was thrown on the floor and forced to have intercourse with his wife! I pity the powerless man! Oh!! And that horrible woman who didn't make sure that her birth control was 100% effective! She's so damn selfish that she didn't volunteer to have her tubes tied when he said he didn't want a kid. What's a little major surgery when you love someone?

Really Susan?!? I'm surprised at you! Because her life will be so much better now that the man decides that he wants out so she has to raise two unplanned children alone (unplanned #1 - disabled, unplanned #2 - BC failed). It's so her fault!

There are some situations out there that relate to your take but this is ABSOLUTELY not one of those "poor powerless man" stories.

Incog was speaking in general, I was speaking in general. My point was towards men in general and not this specific guy.

However, how do you know that the LW's birth control failed? Did you read a different letter than I did?

Mackenzie:

SusanM:

It is the men who are truly without power here. No need to worry about pressuring them into something, they have no voice in the process anyway.

Sure he did. He had the power to put on a condom and/or get a vasectomy if he didn't want kids. He has the knowledge to know that intercourse leads to babies. And knowledge IS power.

He should think about that next time he just wants to get his rocks off.

Ok but you are still not seeing the inherent contradiction here. Women also have the power to take birth control and / or get their tubes tied. So why is it that the women get the choice and the men don't? Why is it we say men cannot insist upon abortion but women can? If we want to say you lose the power to choose abortion because you should have known better - why not take the choice away from the women too? What happens when the man really wants a baby and the woman doesn't? How does his knowledge of birth control factor in there?

I really don't want to play it out to the logical conclusion and say that a woman should be forced to carry a baby that she doesn't want. I just want to take a minute to mourn for all of those men who were forced into situations they didn't want simply because there was no way to give them the same choice that women have.

Yeah, right, men are without power. Throw out the BS flag, cuz that one derserves a penalty! Mackenzie is right, he could have chosen to not enjoy a sexual relationship without first having a vasectomy.

Oh, and by the way....this man is controlling his wife's very existence. You cannot have another baby. You will take care of my Mother. You will not work outside the home. How long will it be before he starts calling her names, then pushing her, then breaking her bones, then killing her? Run LW#1, RUN!

And what would you have said to him when the vasectomy failed? Still tough luck, right? No birth control is 100% effective, including that.

I knew a girl once who was pregnant. Baby daddy was thrilled to death. They got in a fight, she was going to abort the baby to get back at him. Now she eventually was calmed down and realized that wasn't the way to go but still - can you imagine any other circumstance when somebody could cause physical harm out of anger and not be punished? Isn't it just slightly fucked up that this would not only be considered ok but that certain Fraysters would be cheering for her right to do this?

fraybay:

Yeah, right, men are without power. Throw out the BS flag, cuz that one derserves a penalty! Mackenzie is right, he could have chosen to not enjoy a sexual relationship without first having a vasectomy.

Oh, and by the way....this man is controlling his wife's very existence. You cannot have another baby. You will take care of my Mother. You will not work outside the home. How long will it be before he starts calling her names, then pushing her, then breaking her bones, then killing her? Run LW#1, RUN!

This is the smartest thing I have heard in response to LW#1's letter. I totally agree, she should insist on immediate counseling and, if he refuses or does not comply with counselor's assessment and recommendations, RUN.