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And "perfidious" is taken out of context.
by Don Schenk

Jews still complain that before 1962 the Catholic Good Friday service spoke of the "perfidious Jews".

But the thing is that "perfidious" means "unfaithful" [to the Covenant], not "pernicious". And it came from the prayer for the conversion of the Jews, which followed the prayer for the conversion of "the schismatics and heretics". The Missal that my father took with him into battle against Hitler read:

"Let us pray for the unfaithful Jews...Oh God, who didst not regard the unfaithfulness of the Jews..."

The current Missal is more diplomatic: these days it prays for the conversion of "our brothers and sisters who bear our faith in Christ" and "the Jews, the first to receive the Word of God..." As Rabbi Neuser pointed out, he prays for the conversion of the Gentiles form his Jewish prayer book dailly, so he has no problem with the Good Friday prayers.

I pray
by Horus
...for the utter destruction of the Roman Catholic Church.
Re: And "perfidious" is taken out of context.
by normdepalma
Jews don't care about word definitions as much as they care about being murdered. Murdered with the word definitions used as rationales. That kinda sucked.
Re: And "perfidious" is taken out of context.
by Primate

From the wordnet princeton dictionary definition of perfidious:

punic: tending to betray; especially having a treacherous character as attributed to the Carthaginians by the Romans;

From wiki:

Perfidy is an act of deliberate treachery or deception.

Not quite the same nuance as "unfaithful", eh?

Re: And "perfidious" is taken out of context.
by HAP

I am with NDP on this one, words don’t kill, people kill. (Some might argue that words condition).

The new Missal does seem more diplomatic. This other new one mentioned below only comes once a year. Not a mention of the word “perfidious” that I can see…

This from Wiki: On 6 February 2008, the Holy See's newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, published a note [23] by the Vatican Secretariat of State, announcing that, with reference to the dispositions of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, Pope Benedict XVI had decided to amend the Good Friday prayer for the Jews contained in the Roman Missal of 1962, and decreeing that the amended text "must be used, beginning from the current year, in all celebrations of the Liturgy of Good Friday according to the aforementioned Missale Romanum".

The new prayer reads as follows:

Let us also pray for the Jews: That our God and Lord may illuminate their hearts, that they acknowledge Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men. (Let us pray. Kneel. Rise.) Almighty and eternal God, who want that all men be saved and come to the recognition of the truth, propitiously grant that even as the fulness of the peoples enters Thy Church, all Israel be saved. Through Christ Our Lord. Amen.[24]

Re: And "perfidious" is taken out of context.
by Don Schenk
Primate:

From the wordnet princeton dictionary definition of perfidious:

punic: tending to betray; especially having a treacherous character as attributed to the Carthaginians by the Romans;

From wiki:

Perfidy is an act of deliberate treachery or deception.

Not quite the same nuance as "unfaithful", eh?

But the Latin which Jews insist on translating as "perfidious" does mean "unfaithful," and that's why English-language Missals translated it that way.

Re: And "perfidious" is taken out of context.
by Bondsman
HAP:

I am with NDP on this one, words don’t kill, people kill. (Some might argue that words condition).

The new Missal does seem more diplomatic. This other new one mentioned below only comes once a year. Not a mention of the word “perfidious” that I can see…

This from Wiki: On 6 February 2008, the Holy See's newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, published a note [23] by the Vatican Secretariat of State, announcing that, with reference to the dispositions of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, Pope Benedict XVI had decided to amend the Good Friday prayer for the Jews contained in the Roman Missal of 1962, and decreeing that the amended text "must be used, beginning from the current year, in all celebrations of the Liturgy of Good Friday according to the aforementioned Missale Romanum".

The new prayer reads as follows:

Let us also pray for the Jews: That our God and Lord may illuminate their hearts, that they acknowledge Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men. (Let us pray. Kneel. Rise.) Almighty and eternal God, who want that all men be saved and come to the recognition of the truth, propitiously grant that even as the fulness of the peoples enters Thy Church, all Israel be saved. Through Christ Our Lord. Amen.[24]

For this alone can he be regarded as a great Pope.

Re: And "perfidious" is taken out of context.
by Don Schenk
HAP:

I am with NDP on this one, words don’t kill, people kill. (Some might argue that words condition).

The new Missal does seem more diplomatic. This other new one mentioned below only comes once a year. Not a mention of the word “perfidious” that I can see…

This from Wiki: On 6 February 2008, the Holy See's newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, published a note [23] by the Vatican Secretariat of State, announcing that, with reference to the dispositions of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, Pope Benedict XVI had decided to amend the Good Friday prayer for the Jews contained in the Roman Missal of 1962, and decreeing that the amended text "must be used, beginning from the current year, in all celebrations of the Liturgy of Good Friday according to the aforementioned Missale Romanum".

The new prayer reads as follows:

Let us also pray for the Jews: That our God and Lord may illuminate their hearts, that they acknowledge Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men. (Let us pray. Kneel. Rise.) Almighty and eternal God, who want that all men be saved and come to the recognition of the truth, propitiously grant that even as the fulness of the peoples enters Thy Church, all Israel be saved. Through Christ Our Lord. Amen.[24]

First of all, that's the "extraordinary form," the older Missal. Secondly, before 1962 that prayer went "Let us also pray for the unfaithful Jews...Almighty and Eternal God, who does not regard the Jew's faithlessness, and who wants..."

Anyone who's fair-minded, and who knows how the Jews celebrate Purim, might wander what the big deal is. Even if you translated "unfaithful" as "perfidious," that would go "Let us also pray for the perfidious Jews..." Compared to such things as twisting the use of the word "unfaithful" in that prayer, that prayer is nothing.

Re: And "perfidious" is taken out of context.
by Don Schenk

normdepalma:
Jews don't care about word definitions as much as they care about being murdered. Murdered with the word definitions used as rationales. That kinda sucked.

Read "The Myth of Hitler's Pope" by Rabbi David G. Dalin (Regnery). The truth shall set you free.

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