Both Biden and Obama feel that those who make more than 250K have more money than they need so in the spirit of neighborliness or patriotism they should gladly pay more taxes to raise the standard of living of everyone else.

Then Palin's tax return comes out and she gives more to charity than either one of them except when Obama made millions and was running for office.

I guess they believe in that old saying, that says do as I say and ignore what I do because what I think is the right thing to do does not apply to me.

raptor5618:

Then Palin's tax return comes out and she gives more to charity than either one of them except when Obama made millions and was running for office.

Over 80% of her "charity" was tithing to her church. This is not charity, it is dues to her country club. It might be interesting to see what her church does with the money it receives from its members.

The rest of her "charity" was the estimated value of a "crib, household furnishings, and clothing" donated to the Salvation Army of Wasilla. In other words, instead of renting a dumpster and sending their trash to a landfill, they dumped it in a Salvation Army bin. How very Green. I give to the Salvation Army too, but I don't put it on my tax return.

Oh I see not giving is much preferred than giving to groups that you do not feel are deserving of it.

I would guess that a good amount of Obama charity giving went the Rev Wright church. I find it interesting that you do not have any problem with that.

Don't put words in my mouth please. I did not refer to Obama's giving. You are the one who is singing the praises of Paliin's generosity. I am offering some perspective.

I personally believe that either churches should be taxed on their receipts, or that donations to churches should not be tax exempt. One or the other is enough.

raptor5618:

Then Palin's tax return comes out and she gives more to charity than either one of them except when Obama made millions and was running for office.

First, Obama was talking about taxes, not charity, so I'm not sure that this would make Obama a hypocrite. But let's say charity counts... Unfortunately for your argument, it doesn't show Obama as a hippocrit as evidenced by a comparision to Palin.

I hope you don't mind if I paraphrase and rectify your quote above: "Then Palin's tax return comes out and she gives more to charity than Obama, except when she doesn't, which were all of the years that she's released tax returns for. She loses this comparision both as a proportion of salary given and with respect to total amount given." (There's a link at the bottom of my post to a summary of Obama's tax returns.)

raptor5618:

Both Biden and Obama feel that those who make more than 250K have more money than they need so in the spirit of neighborliness or patriotism they should gladly pay more taxes to raise the standard of living of everyone else.

Again, you kind of lose you hypocrite argument. Obama (didn't bother to look up Biden) has paid about 30% of his income to taxes on more than a million dollars in each of the past three years and at ~24% (on ~200,000) the five years before that. Palin, meanwhile, paid less than 15% the last two years on roughly $130,000 and $170,000 of income. Also, according to the Wall Street Journal, Palin's tax returns, 'also show that she owes tens of thousands of dollars in additional taxes, penalties and interest.'

I have no problem believing the Obamas could have donated more to charity and I question whether their donation to the Congressional Black Caucus really should count as charity. None-the-less I don't see the gaping logical inconsistancies you seem to suggest and I wonder whether Palin's taxes were a good topic to bring up in support of your candidate.

Links: <link>

<link>

<link>

It seems to me that Obama and Biden are justifying this extra tax by saying it will help those who make less, pay for eduction, and the good of the planet.

They also seem to say that they do not need it so they should put it to good use. I think if they believe their own BS they would take these extra funds that they do not need and used them for good uses. I think charities do many of the things that governments do so think that would be the best way to use this unneeded money in a way that puts it to good use. They also could have just given it to the government.

I see no evidence they did either. With the exception of the years Obama made millions Palin put more of this unneeded money to a good use. One good thing about charity is you get to direct what good use your money is given toward.

Anyway here are the numbers

Obama AGI Charitable Ch/AGI 2004 $207,647 $2,500 1.20% 2003 $238,327 $340 0.14% 2002 $259,394 $1,050 0.40% 2001 $272,759 $1,470 0.54% 2000 $240,505 $2,350 0.98% Palin 2007 $127,869 $4,880 3.82% 2006 $166,080 $3,325 2.00% Biden 2007 $319,853 $995 0.31% 2006 $248,859 $380 0.15%

Obama AGI Charity Ch/AGI

2004 $207,647 $2,500 1.20%

2003 $238,327 $340 0.14%

2002 $259,394 $1,050 0.40%

2001 $272,759 $1,470 0.54%

2000 $240,505 $2,350 0.98%

Palin

2007 $127,869 $4,880 3.82%

2006 $166,080 $3,325 2.00%

Biden

2007 $319,853 $995 0.31%

2006 $248,859 $380 0.15%

Raptor,

You neglected to mention Obama's '05, '06, and '07 numbers, all of which argue against your position:

2007 $4139965 $240470 5.8%

2006 $983826 $60307 6.1%

2005 $1655106 $77315 4.7%

Also, you base your argument on, 'It seems to me,' 'They also seem to say,' 'I think if they believe,' 'I think,' and so on. This is not the best way to prove someone else is being a hypocrite.

Look, I think all of these donation amounts are really weak, both Palin's and Obama's (and especially Biden's, assuming they are as you list). But it's hard for me to see how Obama's a hypocrite based on the available information.

I have a feeling neither of us will convince the other, so pardon me if I abandon this thread; I don't mean to duck a debate, just have a lot of work to do and I'm not sure how much more productive this argument will be. Still, last word to you. Cheers.

I will try and be short so as to not waste your time. I think I said that I omitted the years that he made over a million dollars. It also coincides with the period when he was gearing up to run for office. So I think what donated could be based on ulterior motives.

His tax increase includes those who make 250K.

I say it seem, and I believe because neither you nor I really know what they actually think.

The site I went to did not have Obama's 2007 taxes listed.

These numbers are taken right from their returns. What would be the point of presenting fake numbers?

Hey, I know I said last word to you, just wanted to say- I trusted that you were posting real numbers, I just didn't bother to look up Biden's myself so I had no idea. Didn't mean to imply any dishonesty.