The war in Iraq started out because we incorrectly thought Iraq has WMDs and maybe Bin Laden and, therefore, could be a threat to the U.S. with a secondary motive of keeping oil prices down. Turns out we were wrong about all 3 things. There was a lot of talk about winning in Iraq in the debate last night but not much in terms of how you define winning in Iraq. It sounds we've redefined winning to mean stability & democracy in Iraq. Not a bad goal, although difficult to achieve. Why not bill the rest of the world for all this freedom fighting ? Why doesn't the rest of the world love us for all this freedom fighting ? Why not do this for every country that doesn't have stablility & democracy ? Of course, the cost of doing this would make the $770 billion banking bailout look like chump change.

Not bad questions. I for one never agreed with going into Iraq in the first place and I think I have been proven correct. I think this marked the end of Bush's presidency as his entire focus became the war. I believe after 9/11 he turned his entire attention to ending terrorism and I applaud him for many of his efforts but he needed to stay focused on his conservative agenda at home. Unfortunately, his agenda never materialized and he seemed to drift to the center as he approved more spending and social programs. He also supported the Patriot Act which is really one of the most unpatriotic pieces of legislation out there.

As fat as Iraq is concerned, we need to stablize the country and have an orderly withdraw while Iraq takes over. Goals for this are great, strict timelines are dangerous. In the end, it was a mistake to go there but we do need to finish and leave the country better off then when we arrived. We also have to stop caring what the world thinks about us as they are envious and secretly wish for our downfall. Obama just does not understand this and that is why he is so dangerous.

You or off the mark,obama has said we have tobe as careful getting out as we was wreckless going in,we should not have gone in the first place ,bush dad told bush 2 if you brake it you own it,i don't know about you but i for one don't want to own it.too expensive for me.

You may like to lose lives of our men and women i don't.

Macain does thats why hes dangerous,the people don't want us there its their country not macains and not bushes.we need to getout.

What people fail to understand is that not having timelines is dangerous. It keeps our troops there forever as sitting ducks, while we should be going to finish what we started in Afghanistan. Just like any other project in life, nothing gets accomplished unless there's a hard deadline. Maybe even the deadline changes as we get closer... that's always a possibility, life and politics and the military being what they are, but we still need a clear deadline to work toward. Funny how the Iraqis and every other knowledgable person in this country not named McCain and Palin understand this. Even someone as hard-headed as Bush finally came around... is the '08 Republican ticket this dense?

Timelines are dangerous because they offer opportunites to sepreatives in Iraq to stike and kill as Americans soldiers are being redeployed. Anounceing a timeline for US troops to leave is just the same as giving insurgents a timeline to strike. Nobody favors a timeline to leave more than the extremist who has been wating for troops to leave so they can strike. Rcent examples include Somalia. clinton gave detailed timelines for US withdrawls and millitants retook the country (quick easy painless), a clear victory for Somali warloards and what does Somali look like today. Are they better off now than they were 10 years ago or worse.

This may not address the heart of your post, but i just can't help myself.

You are wrong to use the term "we." We did not all believe that Iraq had WMDs. And some of "we" said so. And a good number of "we" said Iraq had nothing to do with bin Laden. Some of "we" were not wrong at all.

As to the changing definition of "winning", I would only say that "winning" in the traditional sense isn't possible. Sure, we may bring about peace and stability in Iraq, but that isn't "winning" anything except a chance to go home. I don't think we ever intended to "win" because I don't think we ever intended to leave.

Now, McCain has used the term "victory with honor" quite frequently in his campaign stump speeches. And really, helping to establish a peaceful stability in Iraq and then packing up and leaving would not be dishonorable by any definition. But, if you're still fighting that "other" war, as McCain is, there is nothing else to do but "win" reality be damned. And what, exactly would McCain define as winning, anyway?

". . .still fighting that 'other' war, as McCain is, there is nothing else to do but 'win', reality be damned".

John McCain is a war hero, if by hero you mean 'surrendering' to the enemy and forgetting the motto "Death Before Dishonor". Wasn't he carrying a side arm when he was shot down? Could it be that his obsession with "winning" in Iraq and "winning" this election has more to do with personal redemption than how "winning" would affect the nation and the world?

WE had family and friends killed in vietnam,another war we shouldn't have been in but its over for everone except john macain hes still fighting it his judgement is cloudy to say the least the true heros to me never came home alive thats the true heros they gave everthing they hadand then some for our country, our troops are doing what they were sent to do ,they are doing one hell of a job thats why we have to do our best to bring them home ,we can't even honor the fallen because bush want let the planes bring our war heros home be seen

John Macain is not good for our country .

dantesfurlough,

Think about what you're saying and allow me to paraphrase... "We shouldn't announce when we're leaving so the undesirables don't know we're leaving." Do you really believe that they won't notice our supplies dwindling and our personnel leaving and our installations either packed up or minimized? Do you really think they're that clueless? And we all know that -- unlike us -- they don't navel contemplate for months before acting, so they don't need much lead time to prepare attacks.

If we don't have a clear date to all work toward -- and clearly recognize that the exact date will probably change -- we'll never leave that place.