RE: "My husband wants me to terminate the pregnancy, but I don't want to". This is for the men. Rule number 1: Women don't really care aobut men or fathers. It appears that when it comes to bearing children, they somehow believe they 'own' the born and the unborn. If they 'decide' to abort, they don't have to ask dad's permission, in spite of the fact dad contributed 1/2 of the equation for the new life to begin. (or end, as the case may be). If they 'decide' to continue with the pregnancy, again, they don't have to ask dad's permission, in spite of the fact dad contributed to 1/2 of the equation for the new life to begin. Rule number 2: Women have choices, men have responsibility. If she aborts, she claims it is 'her body', 'her right' to do so. One of the serious flaws with this pompous and sexist attitude is without the father's sperm, the pregnancy would have not taken place. If she goes full term, again she claims it is 'her body', 'her right' to do so. If the man does not like it in either case, his goose is cooked. If she aborts, he will probably and rightfully hate her. If she goes full term and the father did not want to have another child, his goose is cooked because she will not take his views into consideration, she will have the baby, he will hate her, the marriage will end, and the child support will begin. Isn't it odd that women love to play both sides of the same equation? It's all about control and issues of entitlement. Women have been using their bodies (certainly not their minds) to control men since the beginning of time. The only thing men can do is become aware of this manipulation and stay clear of the pitfalls. Wear a condom. No sex if you aren't in the mood. Get a vasectomy and don't ask her permission. Does she ask permission? That would be a big FAT no. Why should any self respecting man ask a woman's permission to do anything a man wants to do with his body or his life? It's YOUR life, it does not belong to her. It's your body, it does not belong to her. It's also your sperm, it does not belong to her. The sad thing is, if she gets pregnant, that child, as wrong as it is, somehow, in societies sexist, gender biased, and hypocritical view, does belong to her. Women that claim they got pregant by 'accident' make me laugh; it is those times she did not take responsibility for her own body and is looking for someone to 'pay the freight'. There are daytime puke shows, hosted by wussified men, that showcase men submitting to lie detector tests for pop tarts that have had babies and are not quite sure which one of FIVE men impregnated her. Do the math. She's a 'ho' and the show is vilifying, humiliating men and making them out to be the bad guy? I don't think so, Corky. Man up. The 'wussification of men' in America must end.

What a strange and bitter man you are.

JessicaFL127:

What a strange and bitter man you are.

Strange & bitter? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, he is right. Sad, but true, this is how it is. Nothing more then harsh, brutal reality.

I'm smelling some sour grapes, here..... Anyway, I would like to point out that all forms of birth control (other than sterilization)have failure rates. That is, they don't always work. I have personal knowledge of this, as my sister got pregnant with an IUD still in place. After that, she had her tubes tied. Also, men have been known to still have viable sperm after having THEIR li'l tubes tied (failure of the procedure). So assuming that it's always somebody's fault that conception occurred is not fair.

When men can be forced to bear a child for 9 months and go through the dangers and pain of childbirth, THEN I might listen to one telling me what to do regarding my own body. If your sperm is so precious, you just keep it to yourself.

Oh, and I think maybe you OUGHT to have a vasectomy and do the human race a favor by not reproducing. We have enough people like you already.

I don't think the point is that men should tell women what to do with their bodies. But, there is a No Fault aspect to choice. Really, whether the pregnancy was planned or not fault isn't the issue, she can decide for any reason to abort or not, and if she decides not to abort she can, I think, give the baby up. So, what would be wrong with having it be legal for either parent give up any parental responsibility for the baby and walk away?

Go back to the sandbox little boy. Or I'll send you off to The Rock.

What an interesting thread.The first poster makes some valid points, but seems to forget that this is the way things have been for some time now, and everyone knows the rules of the game before they decide to play.

The husband says he feels like a money making machine, of no apperant use to his wife except as a paycheck. Men feel this way when they are denied any input on a daily basis. The wife says she does not want to abort, and no matter how I look at the issue I have to support her decision. I think from the reported facts that this is really a power issue, and that if it isn't resolved the marrage will fail. They won't be able to resolve it on their own because they are too involved, too close, to it; so without outside help the marrage is doomed.

So, with a divorce, we will have an ex-husband living with his mother and paying child support for two children, along with (perhaps) alimony. And we will have a mother with two children, at least one of them special needs, living on her own. Another domistic disaster, but in no way uncommon.

As for me (and I am a 60 year old male by the way), all I ever wanted in life was children. What else is there? Money and fame will not outlast the grave; children will. But I was destined to have only one. She is also special needs, though not Downs syndrome. Let me tell you, she is all I could have asked for from a dozen kids. The most loving, sweetest girl any parent ever had, and I'm the most blessed man on the face of the planet.

Her mother and I are now divorced, but we put her welfare first during that painful time, just as we had always put her first. She didn't deserve to have her world shattered because of issues among us, the adults in her life responsable for her welfare. So we did everything we could to minimise the impact on her, and made our decisions (property divisions, child support, visitation and all the rest) based on what was best for her. It was a very civil divorce, based on reason and not emotions.

Perhaps both of the parents in question should be advised to act like adults, let their personal desires be held in less regard than that of their children, accept the roles they will have to play in the future of those children, and get on with their lives. The needs of the children trump the wishes of the parents.

He has somewhat of a point re: the right of a man to have input concerning his children, but reading his other posts combined with this one shows a strange bitterness and venomous diatribe towards women that is completely absurd and over-the top. Hence my comment.

You chose to have a child, and you have fulfilled all of the obligations of a parent. You did this because you loved your wife, you love your child, you have a moral center, and your priorities include other people besides yourself.

The LW doesn't have any of that. He sees his wife as a possession and servant, he sees his mother as a mere encumbrance, and he sees his child as a defective toy that he wants to take back to the store. He'll do anything he can to avoid taking care of his responsibilities and is in for a rude awakening when he's taken to court.

Why the wife would choose to have a second child with Down's is another story. She doesn't sound too bright - sensible women would not do that if they knew the risks.

I agree. If you are having sex with someone you would, in case of pregnancy, blame for having "tricked" you, believe had no intention of listening to you in discussing options and the realities of life in re the pregnancy, you maybe are having sex/a relationship with the wrong person. Also maybe you are kind of messed-up.

Paragraphs and a little brevity would help.

But yeah, although you're full of it for thinking women don't care about men or fathers, your post sounds right.

Utlimately, one person has to make a final decision and that falls on the person carrying the child.

"Women have been using their bodies (certainly not their minds) to control men since the beginning of time."

It doesn't say much for men's intelligence if women can control them so easily. You pretty much insulted your own sex. Most men I know have more brains than that.

wrt the first post: forget about feminism and manipulation. let's talk common sense.

according to the letter writer, she and her husband agreed not to have any more children. one would assume that if they were so set on not having any more children, and particularly if the husband wanted out of the marriage, he would have made the necessary arrangements, ie a vasectomy.

look, men are not fools. they know how women get pregnant. and they know how the law works in this country. they know all about reproductive rights and the woman's right to choose to have or not to have the baby. therefore, any man who doesn't want to be in the position of having to support a child he did not want has no business having unprotected sex with a woman.

life would be much simpler if people simply communicated (about whether they were willing to use contraception, get an abortion etc) before the pregnancy actually happened. that's what adults are supposed to do.

Why is nobody mentioning anything about the middle of her letter where she mentions having to apologise for her behavior? Everybody thinks the guy is being a jerk, but it seems to me that we're looking at only one perspective and even that perspective admits to having behaved poorly.

techresmgt:

Women have been using their bodies (certainly not their minds) to control men since the beginning of time.

Sounds like most of the women you know are manipulative and dumb, and most of the men you know (probably yourself included) are easy to manipulate and even dumber. Here's a tip- no one can control you unless you let them.