First, I am female. But this husband is resentful that he doesn't have any "choice" in the matter. It takes two people to get pregnant, even though only one of them carries the child. By giving women complete choice, men are left with the responsibility of raising a child they never wanted, and I can understand why they would be resentful of that. If it were me, I wouldn't be able to get an abortion, either. That's why I had my tubes tied after my second kid was born (I was 36 at the time, definitely in the risk zone for a Downs baby). It sounds like this marriage was in alot of trouble BEFORE the latest pregnancy, and an abortion probably won't change that much. But if she has a baby and loses her marriage, there's a good possiblilty that child support will be spotty, and she'll be trying to raise two kids, one with special needs, on her own. Birth control, people, birth control.

The risk of having a Down's Syndrome baby are a lot higher if you have already had one.

So, I agree.

Birth control!

Sterilization!

When a fertile man CHOOSES to have sex without a condom, then married or not, he has CHOSEN to risk a pregnancy with all of the social and financial baggage attached. No one gets pregnant when they're alone in the room.

If the woman in question gets pregnant, then of course she has the right to control her own body. The man doesn't get to make any choices after that because at that point, he has already made his own choice not to use a condom or get a vasectomy.

If more mothers of boys gave them the responsibility lecture, maybe we'd have less of the "she has to get an abortion" bullshit from them.

the man has the right to choose to say "see you, wouldn't want to be you," then send only what he is legally obligated to send at the first of the month.

KA

You know this conversation about the men's "rights" goes both ways. In this case he wants her to get an abortion. But what if it was the opposite... What if he wanted her to keep the baby and she wanted the abortion. I realize that's not the case here, but I was wondering where people lie on that issue.

if he want's to keep the baby, and she want's to kill it, he has the right to say "later baby-killer."

KA

Ripley:

But this husband is resentful that he doesn't have any "choice" in the matter. It takes two people to get pregnant, even though only one of them carries the child. By giving women complete choice, men are left with the responsibility of raising a child they never wanted,

Ah, but you are confused about what choice a pregnant woman has. She is specifically choosing whether she wants to put her body through pregnancy and all it's associated risks. The risks are all hers and thus the choice is all hers. However, once the child is born there is a whole different series of choices. If both parties wish to give the child up for adoption, then neither one of them is responsible for raising the child even though an abortion didn't happen.

Ripley:

But if she has a baby and loses her marriage, there's a good possiblilty that child support will be spotty, and she'll be trying to raise two kids, one with special needs, on her own. Birth control, people, birth control.

And if she doesn't have the baby and loses her marriage? I think there really are two seperate issues here.

a guy wakes up one morning and says to himself, "wrong woman, wrong family, wrong job, wrong house-- wrong life!"

He could be a total pussy like the guy in Letter 4. He could start it up with some delicate, inexperienced flower like the chick in Letter 2 (I think it was). He could do something rational and plan a divorce. He could buy something shiny with 400hp and shut up about it. I don't know which is best, because I've never been and am really making every effort not to ever be.

Just for the record, I'm a male who thinks childbirth completely rests with the woman's decision. I have my wang, and I'm happy being guy and not having periods and wearing uncomfortable shoes and crying along with Oprah. I'm totally fine with finding a uterus to gestate the fetus and the rest, and treating the person in the body around it like a goddam goddess!

.. and as several high profile court cases have proven, nobody has the right to enslave a woman by forcing her to not only engage in a risky venture which could end in her death (that would be "pregnancy"), then demand that she hand over her child as if it were a piece of merchandise.

If he's that hot to have a child, there are always other functional uteruses walking around who would be willing to accommodate him.

I am amazed that people forget about the life that is being tossed around so casually here. You discuss the idea of a woman risking her death (i.e. pregnancy), but what exactly is an abortion except the death of a newly growing man or woman to be? I would have to argue that equating "risking death" with "pregnancy" is a little bit dramatic, as today's medical advances allow for much safer and regularly monitered pregnancies. I believe that both the man and the woman already had a chance to make their choice on the pregnancy when they decided to have sex (which is meant for not only pleasure but also for procreation). After that decision, any ensuing results should be dealt with responsibly, not a "quick-fix" abortion.

liner5913:

but what exactly is an abortion except the death of a newly growing man or woman to be?

It's the "to be" part that is important. An embryo is not yet sentient and thus not deserving of the same protections that a sentient creature should have.

liner5913:

I would have to argue that equating "risking death" with "pregnancy" is a little bit dramatic, as today's medical advances allow for much safer and regularly monitered pregnancies.

Actually pregnancy is one of the riskiest things an otherwise healthy young woman can engage in. It's certainly safer than it was a hundred years ago, but it's not yet a walk in the park. Depending on the site you look at, the statistics quoted for complications in pregnancy are between 10 and 33%. (I suspect the difference are a result of the defintion of what consitutes a complication, but I have not done an indepth study.)

liner5913:

I believe that both the man and the woman already had a chance to make their choice on the pregnancy when they decided to have sex (which is meant for not only pleasure but also for procreation).

The key part of your sentence is, "I believe". You are certainly free to believe that, but it is merely your opinion with no basis in fact. When two people decide to have sex, most of the time they have not also decided to have a child. While the latter is a risk of having sex, the decision is by no means a given.

liner5913:

After that decision, any ensuing results should be dealt with responsibly, not a "quick-fix" abortion.

Once again, that is your opinion. While I do believe that it is better for a woman not to get pregnant if she has no intention of bringing the pregnancy to completion, I also think that having abortion is more responsible than having a kid that either spends their life in the system or prevents the parents from becoming productive members of society. However, I certainly don't think that my opinions should be forced on anyone else, and people should be free to make choices that I disagree with in this manner.

The movie, not the album.

The sentient adult in question is the woman. She is the one in charge of what is to happen to her body. No one else has that authority. Only her. If she chooses not to carry the pregnancy to term, then NO ONE has the right to deny her that right.

And yes, women die in childbirth every single day of the year. That's the way it is.

Not everyone believes abortion is murder. Frankly, I don't cotton to people making decisions for me, and I sure don't feel like I know so much I can tell everyone else what to do with their lives. So don't be amazed when there is no scientific or even faith consensus on whether a fetus or embryo is a person and people don't think the way you do.

Lots of opinion and judgment based on no reported information as to the cause of this accidental pregnancy. Did the wife agree to be the one responsible for birth control but forget?
This blame the men - blame the boys - mentality doesn't help us address what is a complicated issue. Men should have some kind of at least recognition for their reproductive rights, not just women. I am pro-choice, and in this instance the ultimate decision is the wife's. But it isn't cut and dried, and the man hardly made the same "choice" at the time of sex as the woman might make at the time of abortion.