Mythbusters did a great episode on this a while back (http://kwc.org/mythbusters/20­07/04/episode_72_underwater_ca­r_and.html). As I recall, having manual vs electric windows doesn't help because of the tremendous pressure pushing against the glass. Unless you can open the doors or windows *immediately* upon entering the water, you'll have to wait for the car to fill up.

Their suggestion was to try to calm down during the time the car fills with water... slow down your breathing so that you can escape through the door once the pressure equalizes.

They did also test the mini-hammers, and they work like a charm... though they weren't able to break the glass using other hard objects you might have near you, such as a cellphone.

I heard a story about a car that went under on the James River in South Dakota some twenty years ago. Some kids were driving on the ice--yes, the ice does get thick enough to drive on in the winter here--and hit a thin patch and fell through. They had electric windows and the system shorted out right away, so they were unable to open the windows. The moral was that if they'd had manual windows they'd have gotten out, but maybe that isn't the case after all, if this "mythbusters' account is accurate.

They didn't drown. They ran out of oxygen. Dent and scratch marks in the car roof indicated their state of panic as they tried to kick and scratch their way out.

Individual models of cars seem to have different characteristics when it comes to the disaster of being submerged. It would be a good idea if manufacturers would include advice in their manuals regarding the car's behavior in water. Of course, liability concerns would probably cause automobile makers to want to avoid this issue.

Personally, I am going to buy the hammers made to break car windows.

I am a member of a search & rescue team in northern California and we pull tons of cars out of local lakes and creeks (most are just stolen and dumped, not accidents, but we never know until its up and out). Many cars we find because their headlights are still on at night under the water. We recently pulled out a convertible mustang that had its headlights on for about 6 hours underwater. The divers that hooked it up to the tow truck rode out sitting inside the car as a joke, but thats another story altogether...

The moral is, electronics don't always fry immediately upon touching water. The cleaner the water, the longer they will work. Pure H20 is not conductive, but you will never find that except in a lab. If you have electric windows, don't think you are going to die, just start rolling them down as fast as possible. Let the water rush in, stay calm, wait for more violent motion to stop, then swim out and away from the car before coming up. There may be debris and oil/gas on the surface of the water that you don't want to come up in to and take your first big breath of air in to.

It is my understanding that the number one simple way someone can protect themselves in a car crash is to wear a helmet.

Of course a helmet is NOT going to help one if their car goes under water BUT the odds of one going under water is so low that it make no sense to buy a hammer.

The odds the helmet will save your life are about 1000 times greater than that hammer.

It's very simple . Ask Ted Kennedy... the "swimmer"! He swam a shore while Mary Jo fought for her last breath in the air bubble of the car. Shame....shame... shame! He never did a day of jail time either.

Yeah why not find away to to turn something like this into a cheap political shot eh?

No Clintonista:

It's very simple . Ask Ted Kennedy... the "swimmer"! He swam ashore while Mary Jo fought for her last breath in the air bubble of the car. Shame....shame... shame! He never did a day of jail time either.

Some Dems couldn't wait to say it was GWB's fault because money was spent on Iraq instead of the infrastructure.

Of course the difference is the Dems are right!

A number of his constituents, myself included, were skeptical about Teddy's version of the accident at the time. The timeline he gave the police just does not compute, if you go back to contemporary newspaper accounts of the accident at Chappaquiddick.

The general reaction in the Commonwealth can be gauged by this incident. I was present, so this is first person reportage, not an urban myth.

A few weeks after the accident, in an attempt to rehabilitate his public image with the voters, Senator Kennedy began speaking at selected high schools around the state. Our town had always voted heavily Democratic, so our high school was 'honored' with a visit from the Senator.

The school administrators gathered the student body in the stands at the football field, the only place big enough to hold all the students and teachers plus some interested citzens of the town, and Kennedy spoke to us using the PA system normally used by the announcers at football games. He talked for maybe an hour about lots of things (not including Chappaquiddick) before he threw open the forum for questions. I waved my hand; he pointed at me and I stood up, the better to project my voice.

"Senator, what you said is all well and good, but you haven't answered the question we all want answered.

"What really happened at Chappaquiddick? Did you just lose it on the bridge and crash through the rails? Were you drunk? Were you high? What? Did you try to get Mary Jo Kopechne out of the car and fail? Were you concussed by the crash? What really happened?"

He tried to override me with the p.a. system, but I shouted, "Just tell us the truth!" First the people around me picked it up, then everyone in the stands started in.

"Tell us the truth! Tell us the truth! Tell us the truth! TELL US THE TRUTH! TELL US THE TRUTH!"

We kept repeating that demand, louder and louder, over and over. He tried to quiet us down, but we outshouted the loudspeakers. he finally gave up and left the podium on the football field, heading for his limo in the parking lot at a pace just short of a run.

As far as I know, he never went back to my home town again. And in the next election, for the first time in years the town voted Republican. (You might recall that in the first senatorial election after Chappaquiddick, Ted Kennedy was just barely re-elected to his Senate seat.)

If he had come clean with us, we'd have respected his honesty and integrity. He'd likely have gotten our votes forever, simply for being upright and honest about the accident and any failings (like drunk driving) that contributed to it. Instead, we saw him as a politician who'd do anything if it meant garnering votes; and this in a state where the Kennedy name was worth a million votes in an election!

I mean, to reply in no doubt the only way you can comprehend...

I think his point had to do with introducing politics into non-political threads...

But FWIW, McCain also berated Congress for not spending enough on bridge repair and maintenance. Of course, his campaign's in the tank and he's desperate, so that MIGHT explain it...:)

i'm surprised some ambitious politician hasn't drafted a bill to this effect (Ted Kennedy, are you listening) . . . "all cars must float for at least 17 minutes in fresh water, 26 minutes in salt waters"

here are my top 10 other things we should make mandatory on cars, to make them safer:

10 - flight recorders which emit a radio signal, so you can recover the bodies after your bridge collapses. also, they should record your "cockpit conversations" and instrument data, so we can see if you were drunk, speeding, etc.

9 - remove the radios. they're more a distraction than a cell phone. you have to take your eyes of the road to change the station

8 - applying makeup or shaving with an electric razor while driving should be a felony, with mandatory loss of license

7 - same thing for truckers who urinate in soda bottles and throw them out the window on the interstate rather than stopping to use the restroom

6 - cars driven by someone under 21 should have a yellow flashing rooftop light, and a bumper sticker that says "recently licensed driver"

5 - some sort of detection system near the pedals, to make sure the ignition is disabled in case your trying to drive barefoot, in beach sandals, or stiletto heels

4 - crash helmets required if you're going to go over 55 mph

3 - electric hybrids like the prius must carry a sticker that advises first responders to an accident "warning - high voltage. do not attempt removal of occupants without rubber gloves"

2 - no pets in the front seat, ever. even if you use the seat belt.

1 - a wifi kind of system the police can control, and disable your vehicle if you're attempting to outrun a police chase vehicle. it should also have the ability to lock your doors and keep your windows up so if you're being arrested you cant get out and run like on the tv show "cops". anyone who's every been convicted a felony must have this feature in his car.

This bridge was inspected more than what was required. It was used everyday..and others built in near same time frame are fine. It was due for a report in september of this year. It had been inspected 2005,2006 etc.. Also, a professionals had reported that it was only in 2020 that repairs and/or replacement needed to occur. This structure was sturdier and safer than many out there. Why was the University Ave. entrance ramp blocked off for days before? How come not others? Who travelled the road every day and at what time? Who would not be on 35W with University Ave. shut off? What was expected? Who expected it? These are my questions.

The following is from the Star Tribune, with a link to the complete story.

“...The inventory data also summarize the bridge's status as "structurally deficient." Bridge components are ranked on a scale of 0 to 9, with 0 being "failed" and 9 being "excellent."

In 2005, the bridge's superstructure -- meaning the physical conditions of all structural members -- was rated at 4, records show. The bridge's deck was rated 5, and the substructure, comprised of the piers, abutments, footings and other components, was rated 6.

In 2001, a research report on the bridge had found that it was unlikely to experience any fatigue cracking in the trusses supporting its deck. The paper, prepared by the University of Minnesota's Center for Information Studies, evaluated both the main trusses and the floor truss of the bridge.

The report by the late Robert J. Dexter and others, concluded that the bridge's deck "has not experienced fatigue cracking, but it has many poor fatigue details on the main truss and floor truss system."

Minneapolis Star Tribune

As I said in my first post on the subject earlier...the Michigan State Police Dive Team did what is still today the most extensive vehicle submersion study to date covering all aspects of this topic repeating the experiments time and time again. Water pressure has no effect on electrically operated windows or manually operated ones either for that matter. Both function perfectly fine unless damaged in the initial impact with the water. In the Project Star tests, vehicles were driven at speed off a series of barges forming a bridge. The vehicles impacted the water at speeds from 35 to 55 mph. The most worrisome discovery was that in some cases the greatest contributing factor to the vehicle sinking quickly was the hood slamming back into the windshield smashing it when the hood safety catch failed under the impact pressure with the water allowing quicker water entry. In none of the vehicles did the occupants...trained rescue divers...have any difficulty operating or exiting the windows. The only difficulty experienced with escape in the test is when two dive team members seat belted into the front ...were in a vehicle which turned upside down on its way to the bottom. One of the divers became severely disoriented and had difficulty figuring out how to get out of the vehicle. Fortunately for him they had pre rigged a SCUBA cylinder with regulators in the rear seat and ran them up to the front. After a few tense moments he regained his composure and exited with help from his partner. Project star tested over 21 makes and models of vehicles both foreign and domestic even including a school bus.