"The school, which currently has about 2,500 students, has long been notorious as one of the worst in the city, with what the L.A. Times recently described as a "reputation for student fisticuffs and an appallingly high dropout rate.""

Cute. "Fisticuffs", huh? 100-200 black and mexican students were involved in a race riot -- one of many. Cops called and showed up in force. Knives taken from some students. They were racially segregated in separate portions of the school. Several arrested and taken downtown. Yet you call it "fisticuffs".

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On the other hand, a goofy white kid hangs a noose on a tree branch in Jena, and you call down all the forces of hell upon him and his entire community.

You cheer mass race demonstrations even AFTER a black FBI boss determined he had no racial intent.

What goes on in your heads. Really. What makes you think the way you do? What makes you so disgusted at your own skin and so forgiving and understanding of grotesque hatred you see in others?

White folks are demon spawn when they make the slightest mistake (by your lights at least), yet a giant for-real brown/black race riot is "fisticuffs".

Its like we live in two different worlds, with two totally different perceptual systems. With two totally different sets of sense organs.

What seems as plain as the nose on my face is utterly invisible, completely incomprehensible to you.

A hate-filled, violent race riot becomes a schoolyard spat -- mere fisticuffs -- because you live in horror of having to admit to the ugly reality.

A substantial number of Blacks and Mexicans are racist, they like to kill each other, and they are not going to stop.

You wouldn't hesitate to say that very thing if white students were involved, but since they are not, you just turn your head away and do not see, do not hear.

"Fisticuffs" indeed.

What I find interesting is that when black and Mexican kids fight, it's usually with fists.

When a white kid gets mad, he takes a gun to school and kills 20 people.

I'm glad I work in a school that's mostly black and Hispanic. These white kids are crazy.

Ok, so let's get back to reality. White kids aren't any crazier than black kids or vice versa.

On the segregation issue, you can bet that if it was planned segregation, it was at the request (or for the intended benefit of) each racial group, like the number of all-black dorms at various universities. White guys didn't come up with that one. If they had, they'd be out on the street holding "Will work for food" signs. There is a culture now amongst minorities to segregate themselves out of an institutionalized hatred for white people. If you don't believe me, just go hang out in any inner city. Come to Pittsburgh and drive your minivan through Homewood, and I think you'll see what I mean.

From what I can see here is that the segregation and racial tension issues we are talking about stem from the same group politics and institutionalized multiculturalism that has become so prominent in our society. You have the Al Sharptons and the Jesse Jacksons and the Jeremiah Wrights of the world doing everything they can to make sure there is still hatred and animosity between blacks and whites. You have the "La Raza" crowd screaming how illegal aliens' rights are being violated. LA is the perfect cauldron in which to brew these race riots because now you have two or three victim groups trying to prove who is the bigger victim, and of course, they hate each other.

Beyond that, you have all of the Great Society programs that have all but annihilated any sense of civilized culture in the inner cities. The welfare cesspool of the inner cities only plays into the hands of those claiming victimhood. "We're not getting enough!" they shout. How about 4 trillion dollars in the last 30 years or so? Ladies and gentlemen, we have created a population with their hands out and demanding more, and we perpetuate it with people saying that you can't make it if you're black, or hispanic, or whatever. You can't get out without affirmative action. You can't earn more money because the white man is keeping you down.

Where is the line drawn? Look at the facts in schools. We specifically hire teachers of the ethnic backgrounds in question so they can "relate" to their students. We have specific "English as a Second Language" courses to "reach out" to immigrants that haven't bothered to learn the language yet. We teach classes in Spanish so that the illegal aliens don't actually have to learn our language. We have mulitcultural studies courses to make minorities feel good about themselves and build up resentment to white folks, or so that white folks can "truly understand" the plight of minorities and foster "white guilt." We teach Ebonics classes (I'm waiting for the Pittsburghese course myself). We offer free lunch, free breakfast, free after-school day care, free before-school day care. I ask again, where is the line drawn?

I've seen either directly or indirectly in all of these articles that at the root of all these problems lies poverty. OK, fine, but will we ever stop doing the things that create more poverty and dependence? "Well, you can't just leave them on their own!" someone will say. Yet, it's the only thing that hasn't been tried yet. The hard-core solution to a hard-core problem is never easy or pretty. To paraphrase Michael Savage, good medicine doesn't smell very good or taste very good, but you have to swallow it to get the cure. Band-aid after band-aid has been applied to this problem decade in and decade out. It's like putting bubble gum in a crack in the Hoover Dam. You can only patch so many holes before the whole thing blows up in your face.

Ford, I'm going to overlook the rest of your silly rant and focus on this little bit of nonsense:

Look at the facts in schools. We specifically hire teachers of the ethnic backgrounds in question so they can "relate" to their students. We have specific "English as a Second Language" courses to "reach out" to immigrants that haven't bothered to learn the language yet. We teach classes in Spanish so that the illegal aliens don't actually have to learn our language.

1. There is a severe shortage of teachers in districts across the country. It would be nice if schools had the luxury of choosing between a host of candidates, but that's not the reality. So this idea that we intentionally hire non-white teachers is complete horseshit.

2. We have ESL classes so we can teach students the English language. In fact, most ESL teachers don't even speak Spanish, at least not around here. Not that it would matter, since a lot of these immigrants come from Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. We have one at my school from Russia. You can correctly assume that we don't have ESL teachers that speak every language on the planet.

You don't have a damned clue about what goes on in schools. Yet, like most people, you feel entitled to render your ridiculous opinion. Whatever.

No, I don't have a damned clue even though i'm immersed in it every day. You know zero about my background. Wrong assumption.

On your first point, you haven't been to Pittsburgh lately, have you?

On your second point, yeah I get that. Now, why are there classes taught in Spanish?

I find it interesting that every time I touch a nerve on the mass stupidity of racial bickering and government handouts that it's always labelled a "silly rant" or some similiar thoughtless dismissal, but no one can ever say why I'm wrong.

Now, why are there classes taught in Spanish?

ESL students take math and science classes taught by bilingual teachers (we do have a couple of Spanish-fluent ESL teachers in those subjects) because the kids don't have time to master English to such an extent that they can handle mainstream, English-only math and science. For those kids from Africa and elsewhere, they're out of luck; it often takes them longer to graduate as a result. And they must speak English to graduate (at least in Texas). Lack of support for ESL programs means we have a mighty high drop-out rate for first generation Latin American immigrants.

Of course, by the second generation, the children of these new immigrants speak English as well as any white man. By the third generation, quite a lot of them don't even speak Spanish anymore. That's how it has been for generations of new immigrants to this country. But don't let historical fact get in the way of your warped perspective.

Secondly, to respond to another nutty assertion you made, NOBODY has EVER taught ebonics in ANY classroom. It's yet another wildly hysterical claim that has no basis in reality. The Oakland school district toyed with the idea of training their teachers in the nuances of African-American dialect, not so they could teach it in place of standard American English, but so they could better understand the challenges that urban students face when trying to discern proper English from street slang. Of course, when the idea of "ebonics" first hit the news media, the nation went positively apeshit.

"Of course, when the idea of "ebonics" first hit the news media, the nation went positively apeshit"

I can't imagine why.

"But don't let historical fact get in the way of your warped perspective."

Funny, I don't recall anyone teaching classes in Italian or Gaelic when all of my ancestors came over here. Must be another warped perspective.

Ford, German was taught in every school in Washington County, Texas, until the German community promised the Ku Klux Klan that they would stop back in the 1920's in return for a promise from the KKK that they would end their assaults.

At the turn of the 20th century, dozens of community newspapers were published all over the country in German, Polish, Czech, Spanish, Yiddish...you name it.

Lastly, your ancestors didn't have to finish school. Back then, you didn't need a high school diploma to get a job. So they were able to speak their native tongues, hopefully learning a bit of English as they got along, and expecting their children to assimilate. Which most of them do and have always done.

I stand corrected if you mean that math class was taught in German.

FordTruck5Speed:

I stand corrected if you mean that math class was taught in German.

I don't understand. German is okay but Spanish is not? Is that what you mean?

If it were up to me, every kid in America would begin Spanish language classes in the third grade and continue into high school. It is atrocious that our students are not bilingual.

Good Afternoon Ford and Anse!

Obviously Anse you are from Texas and Ford is from Pittsburg! Personally in the Austin area, I think the bi-lingual program is not fully endorsed by AISD. My wife (non-hispanic) taught a bi-lingual class w/o the benefit of speaking Spanish. My obvious observation was 'shouldn't you have a command of the language before you teach ESL for Social Studies?" The answer was that she able to teach in English but the kids could reply in Spanish (she understands Spanish) IMHO this is 'goofy' The kids obviously understood English and were sharp. But then, there was the 'culture war' going on too. These kids were reluctant to fully embrace the Texas/US culture.

I agree with you Anse that every kids should know at least one other foreign language. My 'gringo' grandmother-in-law asked me why her great-grandchildren weren't learning Spanish. I had to laugh because 20 - 30 years, she would have been fussing about them learning Spanish. Times have changed. I am not that proficient with Spanish so I am teaching them as best as I can.

But back to the original thing you two were arguing about. Some people (ie white folk) think that all minorities all get along. There is so much division in this town it is destruction to the school system as well as the social fabric. Whew! Example, Reagan HS is highly mixed school - mostly Black and Hispanic. Both sides want a principal like themselves. But if a black principal is hired, the hispanics cry foul at everything he/she does, and vice versa. So the school suffers and the race wars continue...

just my observations...

Interesting. I was a long-term substitute for Special Ed. mathematics at Reagan HS in Austin back in the late 90's. They had problems back then. I think they had something like four principals in five years when I got there, and the one they had at that time quit the following year.

I remember being a little bit terrified by the prospect of teaching math to Special Ed. kids. I have a degree in English. Thankfully, their skills were low enough that I could teach basic stuff like how to add and subtract fractions and whatnot.

I did that job for about four months, until the end of the school year. Not once did an administrator bother to ask how I was doing. The Special Ed. chair poked her head in once in a while, but she was very busy doing her own thing. I was pretty much left to my own devices.

At the end of the year, I wrote a letter to the administration expressing my concerns. I reminded them that I had no training in Special Ed. or math, yet I received no help at all. I have a feeling that letter prevented me from getting an interview for the English position that opened up the same year. Oh well.

Unfortunately, not much has changed. Reagan is still in a bit of turmoil. However, they have'nt been in the news lately.

Personally, it depends on the principal (leadership) of the school. At the school my wife teaches, this is the first year they didn't have 'fisticuffs'. They have a new principal who was from the Bronx. Two principals ago (4 years ago), the new year would start off with a fight. This principal is taking charge and 'kicking ass' where it needs it.

The way AISD works, as long as they don't hear too many compliants, they will leave the principal alone. Although there have been exceptions - (our neighborhood MS has a principal how IMHO was hired to 'shake things up' - she received compliants from the parents and teachers) and she is still there. (???)

As Ford would, it is up to us, the parents to properly be there for our kids to ensure that they are participating and learning. And that we, the parents are supporting the teachers and checking their take home folders. To me, that is what is working for us and our kids.

Are we talking about the same things here? I took 4 years of Spanish. I'm not talking about classes that teach students to speak a foreign language, I'm asking you if all the other classes were taught in a foreign language. Hence my last reply. I stand corrected if you mean that math, science, history, marching band, pottery, poetry, etc...were all taught in a foreign language.

Not only do we have classes in Spanish, Ford, but we just became one of only a handful of high schools in the United States that has a program sponsored by the Spanish government. The kids who graduate from this program get a diploma that qualifies them as a graduate in both Texas and Spain.

Immigrants want to learn English. Don't assume they don't. It just so happens that people along the border have been speaking Spanish for a good 200 years longer than they've been speaking English. Even the white people in Laredo speak enough Spanish to get around. My uncle answers the phone with "Bueno!" and he's as white as they come.