enter the fray: our reader discussion forum
Search in:
Advanced
View:FlatThreaded
Page 1 of 2 (22 items)   1 2 Next >
Swift Boat XX Factor
by EML
+1/-1 Reply
Wow... Absolutely fucking wow. Talk about hypocrisy. None of you have ever freaking served. You know squat about the UCMJ. You know nothing about the military other than your paranoid delusions.... This is what the left has sunk to?! The same need to smear that gave us the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth from the right. Disgusting.
Re: Swift Boat XX Factor
by Mara5525

Did you even READ the article? This is a serious piece of investigative journalism, not some smear campaign or light-weight thing. And what does serving have to do with it? The journalist who wrote that article served; that's why the issue is so important to him.

Get your head out of the sand and face facts: our government lies to us in ways big and small. It should be held accountable.

Re: Swift Boat XX Factor
by lubbesuh
I read the article and it is a complete smear job.
Re: Swift Boat XX Factor
by Mara5525

Well, Lubbesuh, you are entitled to your opinion. As am I. However, the author of the article provides myriad details of evidence which back up his assertation that many POWS were left behind. If people want/need to ignore this, it's their call.

Re: Swift Boat XX Factor
by lubbesuh
This article makes many accusations against McCain without any proof. It makes claims about his behavior but provides no names of accusers, dates, times, places when these things supposedly occurred. You believe this because you want to, not because there is evidence.
Hun, it's a smear job
by EML

Serious journalism, when it leaves out major facts like the UCMJ's stance on being a POW. The rules that govern the behavior of POWs. Yeah, I call it a smear job. Oh and the confidentiality clauses of military service.

Re: Hun, it's a smear job
by Mara5525

"It makes claims about his behavior but provides no names of accusers, dates, times, places when these things supposedly occurred."

Are you joking? We must have read different articles. The one I read provided a great deal of evidence, as well as documents. Quotes, timelines, rationales for why it happened - it's all there.

Maybe you didn't, in fact, read it?

Whatever.

I'm glad the article is out there.

Re: Hun, it's a smear job
by jwschmidt

EML, if you're saying that the government is within its rights to keep things confidential (that seems to be what your statements indicate?), thats one thing. But many folks would disagree with that.

While I'll agree this is a smear job in that it directs all this controversy at McCain specifically, I'm not sure what it is lacking in terms of being an actual investigative piece into a wider coverup of the POW issue. Its full of names and dates and copies of government documents.

So when you say its a smear, are you saying that it is so because it is aimed at McCain (perhaps unfairly), or that it is not well researched?

Here's a little fact for you
by EML
When a person is a POW, releasing information about them could possibly cause their death, torture, etc. The UCMJ requires extreme confidentiality on people who are POWs. So, the sources are probably shit.
The military is required to keep information
by EML

confidential unitl your next of kin is notified of your demise and any related circumstances (if you are determined to be dead). In terms of a POW the government is required to keep a very strict level of confidentiality, because releasing information about you makes you a target to the enemy.

It's All There, If You Want To See
by Mara5525

From the Nation article:

"One of the sharpest critics of the Pentagon's performance was an insider, Air Force Lieut. Gen. Eugene Tighe, who headed the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) during the 1970s. He openly challenged the Pentagon's position that no live prisoners existed, saying that the evidence proved otherwise. McCain was a bitter opponent of Tighe, who was eventually pushed into retirement."

"In a private briefing in 1992, high-level CIA officials told me that as the years passed and the ransom never came, it became more and more difficult for either government to admit that it knew from the start about the unacknowledged prisoners. Those prisoners had not only become useless as bargaining chips but also posed a risk to Hanoi's desire to be accepted into the international community. The CIA officials said their intelligence indicated strongly that the remaining men—those who had not died from illness or hard labor or torture—were eventually executed."

" An early and critical McCain secrecy move involved 1990 legislation that started in the House of Representatives. A brief and simple document, it was called "the Truth Bill" and would have compelled complete transparency about prisoners and missing men. "

"But a few months later, a new measure, known as "the McCain Bill," suddenly appeared. By creating a bureaucratic maze from which only a fraction of the documents could emerge—only records that revealed no POW secrets—it turned the Truth Bill on its head."

"He [McCain] was certainly far from calm on the Senate POW committee. He browbeat expert witnesses who came with information about unreturned POWs...In 1996, he roughly pushed aside a group of POW family members who had waited outside a hearing room to appeal to him, including a mother in a wheelchair."

"The New York Times published a long, page-one story on February 2, 1973, about the discrepancy, [of prisoners] especially raising questions about the number of prisoners held in Laos, only nine of whom were being returned. The headline read, in part: "Laos POW List Shows 9 from US —Document Disappointing to Washington as 311 Were Believed Missing." And the story, by John Finney, said that other Washington officials "believe the number of prisoners [in Laos] is probably substantially higher." The paper never followed up with any serious investigative reporting—nor did any other mainstream news organization."

"This refrain led Bob Taylor, a highly regarded investigator on the Senate committee staff who had examined the photographic evidence, to comment to me: "If grass can spell out people's names and a secret digit codes, then I have a newfound respect for grass."

"Serving in the army in Germany during the Cold War and witnessing combat first-hand as a reporter in India and Indochina led me to have great respect for those who fight for their country. To my mind, we dishonored US troops when our government failed to bring them home from Vietnam after the 591 others were released..."

"Maybe Nixon and Kissinger told themselves that they could get the prisoners home after some time had passed. But perhaps it proved too hard to undo a lie as big as this one. Washington said no prisoners were left behind, and Hanoi swore it had returned all of them. How could either side later admit it had lied?"

(emphasis added)

(And this is only a small part of what is reported. Why don't you read it and understand, before you make baseless accusations, because you don't like the ideas it contains)?




Re: It's All There, If You Want To See
by Mara5525
And also: the article does not only target McCain. John Kerry is also cited as working w/McCain to cover up information on the POWS.
Re: It's All There, If You Want To See
by Slawrence5

This just in:

Its been revealed that McBush spent 1967 to 1973 in the Bangkok Hilton, Not the Hanoi Hilton as previously stated. I interviewed the busboy. He tells me his nephew's baby pictures look just like Palin's latest.

Re: It's All There, If You Want To See
by KevDurden

Mara5525:
And also: the article does not only target McCain. John Kerry is also cited as working w/McCain to cover up information on the POWS.

Mara, just give up. These imbeciles couldn't even be bothered to read the clearly linked sources, they're just going to find a new shade of paint for the rickety POW shed they been propping up all campaign.

They have no interest in actually reading anything that doesn't verbally fellate their naked emperor. It's sad to see that people who support a guy who was supposed to be the ethical knight in white armor have no interest in learning anything that might tarnish their kindergarten view.

Can anyone say "silver fox?"

Re: It's All There, If You Want To See
by jwschmidt
Ok EML, thats why you wouldn't want to release info on specific prisoners. But thats not what this was about, is it? It was about whether or not any prisoners, whatsoever, still existed. This had nothing to do with naming names, but determining whether or not the prisoners still existed.

For what its worth, I don't really see this as a big fault for McCain. The issue is far to complex and goes deeper than him. But, this doesn't seem like any way to have handled a POW issue.
Page 1 of 2 (22 items)   1 2 Next >
View as RSS news feed in XML