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Scientology
by brendanlevy

Glad to hear such intelligent and straightforward writing from a religion journalist.

I am an agnostic and find all the organized religions a bit frightening, but I'm glad to see the upstart given a fair shake.

For my part though I think I'll avoid the auditing.

Good call
by Greatbear452
Scientologists are suckers. While all religions have their share of stranged beliefs, scientology is so obviously the product of a con man (and a hack SF writer) that only people as dumb as Tom Cruise are taken in by it.
Re: Good call
by Mrbillshow
Umm greatbear4564456 I can't really agree with the whole "Tom Cruise is dumb" idea. Just on the fact that he has more fame and wealth than all of us and our families combined. Plus add on the fact that he's still alive and hasn't OD and died at an early age and hasn't become some laughing "has been" who can't seem to get work. Probably puts him in the catogory of - Alot smarter than you and me field. I'm just saying.
Re: Good call
by Daveo
Paris Hilton has a lot more money that all of us put together too. Is she a genius? What led to Tom's wealth was good looks and the ability to remember lines, that is all. Trying to draw a connection between wealth and intelligence is amazingly stupid.
Re: Good call
by Uncle_Spike

If his fame and wealth were a result of invention, innovation or research then perhaps I would agree. But becoming famous for lip synching in his underwear and then continuing to make money off of good looks is certainly no indication of intelligence.

With that said, what bearing does that have either way? It's a non-issue. That somehow because a celebrity believes (or doesn't believe) something that it is good (or bad) is silly. Being famous doesn't grant any special insight into anything, it just grants a bigger platform to spout from.

If people just the quality of information (on any topic) by the amount of wealth and fame, or ability at self promotion, of the speaker instead of on the knowledge that person has of the subject they are speaking on then they deserve what they get...some people get Bill O'Reilly, some get Tom Cruise.

Re: Good call
by freedomwalker

I think some people are so busy trying to slander various celebrities and their chosen religion that they lose sight of the point of the article, which is that people are entitled to believe whatever they want. The first amendment to the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion.

This amendment was created because the founders of our great country knew from history that, without such a freedom, intolerant people would attempt to wipe out any and all minority religions.

The first amendment reads:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

It seems as though some individuals strenuously object to freedom of religion. My suggestion for these individuals is that they try living for a while in a part of the world that has no such freedoms, and see for themselves how much they like it there.

Oh please!
by Greatbear452

Mrbillshow:
Umm greatbear4564456 I can't really agree with the whole "Tom Cruise is dumb" idea. Just on the fact that he has more fame and wealth than all of us and our families combined. Plus add on the fact that he's still alive and hasn't OD and died at an early age and hasn't become some laughing "has been" who can't seem to get work. Probably puts him in the catogory of - Alot smarter than you and me field. I'm just saying.

Being rich for being able to smile on cue isn't a sign of intelligence. I judge Cruise's intelligence based on his attempts to speak when someone else isn't writing his dialogue. Just look at his pathetic antics on the Today Show and Oprah and tell him what a genius he is.

Oh Please, Part II!
by Greatbear452
freedomwalker:

It seems as though some individuals strenuously object to freedom of religion. My suggestion for these individuals is that they try living for a while in a part of the world that has no such freedoms, and see for themselves how much they like it there.

Who is trying to prevent anyone from excercising their freedom of religion? The same first amendment that protects the right of Scientologists to give all their money to a con man also protects my right to call them morons for it.

It's not working.
by freedomwalker

It really is a tough pill to swallow, but all of the hate speech, such as the last post, is not working. You instantly lose your audience when you resort to name calling, which is an approach that an individual should have left behind after elementary school.

If you really intend to try to change people's opinions, you need to upgrade your approach. Intelligent people simply don't respond to such methods.

Notice that the first word in the amendment
by Fritz Gerlich
is "Congress." The First Amendment religion clauses are a legal restriction on government. They say nothing about the reaction of society to a phenomenon like Scientology. People make the same mistake about the presumption of innocence. That's a legal doctrine. It does nothing to forbid anyone to have an opinion about the guilt or innocence of a criminal defendant.
That's not the point.
by freedomwalker

The entire point of the first amendment was to keep the government from dictating what we are to believe and not believe. The founders of our country were well aware of the abuses in countries that had a state religion.

It was a common occurence under a state religion that people could be severely punished for not adhering to the beliefs of the religion. And many people who originally came to America were doing so to escape religious persecution in Europe.

This is the point of freedom of religion. People are free to believe what they want in this country.

As far as opinions, you can have all of the opinions that you like. That's the beauty of our country.

It is the point.
by Uncle_Spike

No persons freedom to believe was ever challenged, no state sponsored punishment was asked to be given to those who follow that belief so yes it does remain the point that you stated that the posted ridicule of Scientology and certain celebrity adherants constituted a wish to deny freedoms granted in the 1st amendment.

Re: It is the point.
by freedomwalker
You obviously didn't understand what I wrote earlier. I am talking about freedom of religion. I also firmly believe in the freedom to have opinions and state those opinions.
Re: Good call
by Uncle_Spike
freedomwalker:

I think some people are so busy trying to slander various celebrities and their chosen religion that they lose sight of the point of the article, which is that people are entitled to believe whatever they want. The first amendment to the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion....It seems as though some individuals strenuously object to freedom of religion.

So what part was it I didn't get? No one 'strenuously objected to freedom of religion. No one said congress should outlaw the belief of Scientology. So where is this great call by the masses to eliminate freedom of religion..people calling Tom Cruise a moron? Oh Gasp! That's it...thats the great call for state sponsored punishment of Scientologists in voilation of the 1st amendment? Geesh.

Re: It's not working.
by SILVER

Freedomwalker is missing the point, perhaps.

Of all the many posts i've read on Scientology, the overiding concern seems to be the agressive tactics they use to SHUT UP people who disagree with them, and this includes family members of their flock whom they are forced to shun if they wish to remain members.

Having worked for them for a couple of their formative years, I can attest to the underlying hostile and agressive stance that Scientology mandates with regard to any expression of disagreement with them.

I haven't read a single post that suggests that Scientology should be banned. It is the SCIENTOLOGISTS that trample all over our freedom of religion and freedom of speech in this country.

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