In the self-retelling of events from long ago we usually elevate ourselves to heroes in the form of the twist from our perspective that insures that everyone know that in life, this was OUR moment. Even if it is Grandma talking about how she captured a rabbit dining on her lettuce, we love those stories. There is no reason to believe McCain is not a hero as is everyone who fights in or who is captured in a war. He stands out in the stories and likely stood out in the arena, or not. That part is pretty much just under "The war I fought" but today we are in trouble. Today we need a hero and not someone whose sole merit is he was captured years ago. We need someone who is willing to take this country in a new direction. Someone brave enough to fight against the Bush/McCain mentality. Even the language of the republican convention should have penetrated viewers senses in terms of the future war. The one waiting in the wings. The unnamed war that is certain to happen because the mindset is one of America as ruler of the planet. That is what makes Obama so refreshing. That missing ingredient from McCain, a statesman. A man who has not been in a war years ago and who thinks working with the global community pays off. The one who says "Enough."

But some look around and see a total collapse of their own lives and think Bush in the form of McCain can save them. I don't really understand that this round because YOU have so much to lose and it is more than just your home, if you haven't already lost that. With the deficit at a monstrous level, you are choosing to continue even knowing that what you got for all that money is a war and nothing but debts you can't afford. And as prices in consumer goods rise you will pay for it proud to have had a third chance to get it right but politics and party made you leave every last drop of sanity to vote against yourself and your family.

Fear is statesman handling of foreign affairs, war is preferable.

Fear is having a solid healthcare plan that covers everyone, paying for military is preferable

Fear is taxing oil companies on extreme profits, tax breaks to them are preferable.

Fear is getting more taxes back, protecting the wealthy is preferable.

There is no way to understand what any given person sees as "Well spent money" but for half the population "Well spent money seems to be anything their party says is a good thing even if you already know you have been screwed for 8 years, your party wants 4 more, and then 4 more, and then 4 more. And you are just along for the ride and working hard to pay for your own folly.

Are we masochists?

Taxes:

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Healthcare from Economic Policy Institute:

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And yet, McCain tells a good story.

hi, marylb! I have to disagree with you on one thing...I don't think he gives good anything. He comes across as so unsure of himself on just about every level. I see him standing next to Palin and he just looks like he wants to be anywhere but there. He is uncomfortable in his own skin. I almost feel sorry for the man because he is a shell of a person and has no business being president and if the people of this country decide otherwise, then that's a decision I will have to live with...but I am hoping that I will find us all on a better path come Nov. 4...or soon thereafter.

NIce to see you're still here.

bullet points marketing of the Obama/Biden ticket to the correct board, Marylb, since this place is pretty much 'Elect Obama' central station for the Frayverse. So congratulations for knowing your target audience.

But, then again, you are pushing your company's product line to the already convinced. That was BRAVE of you.

Speaking of BRAVE, aside from having the national press and the DNC combine efforts to 'give' him the Democratic Party nomination, in what manner has Obama ever been field tested, put under heavy fire, and demonstrated his true inner core -- for good or bad?

What's the sound of one brain cell firing? That's the impact of the Obama camp [you did admit to being a campaign worker for Obama a couple of month's ago] pushing the claim that Obama has EVER demonstrated bravery.

Intelligence? Certainly! No argument there. You can go with intelligence and probably make a case for him over McCain -- or at least not come accross as looking foolish.

Other personal traits? He has that beautiful, rich, orator's voice that can momentarily convince nearly anyone of anything; the effects of which -- among 18 million Clinton voters anyway -- lasts about fifteen seconds after he shuts his mouth and then his mesmerized audience manages to throw off the glamor and begin to think about his specific words. Then it becomes, "Hmmmm . . . but he didn't actually produce any beef with that air sandwich," time.

McCain is not telling a story, by the way, he is relating one of the central core features that helped shape who and what he is today, which is something that concerned citizens want to know about. When you consider what he endured and how it affected him you get a good sense of who and what he is today and WHY he has such a long track record of bipartisan compromise and productivity in the Senate. You know, an actual and meaningful record that represents a formidable body of work . . . and genuine experience?

So Obama has been pursuing his own self-interests in running for president, and that's fine, but it's hardly brave. Obama is very intelligent and rather young and he's well educated and has an absolutely gorgeous speaking voice. He is many things, but brave?

I guess that it depends on one's definition of the word. I can't really call Obama BRAVE in comparison to McCain, but then you obvoiusly are using some other 'secret' meaning where that word is concerned. Good luck with that project!

Demcon, so it's about "brave" for you? "Brave" lives in the heart of every single human being on the planet. "Brave" lurks in the background until it is called upon. Most people respond beyond brave when put in a position that requires bravery. Look at some of the things that have happened here in the United States when the chips are down. 9/11/2001 being a shining example of "brave". Here in my own town hundreds of people risked their lives on Aug. 1, 2007 when a bridge collapsed over the Mississippi river. "Brave" does not belong to a party or to one politician or to one religion. "Brave" belongs to each heart and soul and is there when it is needed.

(and I know from past experience with Marylb, she cross posts things on several boards so she's not known for playing it "safe" as you would like to believe.)

You'll be pleased to know I posted a version of this in Ballotbox first. Do you relly think I need support to post reality?

I have a test for you: I dare you to break down the issues and separate Bush from McCain but for minor niggly issues scattered here and there. Schools? Public school money following student into ANY private school that also didn't get passed in 8 years. Bush' baby.

Social Security: Privatized (again Bush' baby)

Iraq: mocking Obama for verbalizing the need for specific withdrawal dates. McCain is in it to win it whenever. Iraq agreed, the administration acted, it is a done deal. McCain: little mention of Iraq other than "better".

I think you have a chance to really make a differenc here in how you want your life to go. You can decide that medical insurance for all is a good thing or you can conclude that the America ruling the world with war is far better spent money. I don't really care that you don't see sameness even when McCain makes it perfectly clear. In the end it only matters to you if you. I can live with it no matter how this mess turns out. We are going to either give a statesman a chance or we are determined to continue the self-created misery.

Eventually the voting public gets it right. It is usually when they have had enough.

of the points. Wish he had taken it further because there were certainly more Bush issues McCain is presenting as his own. But here is the obvious:

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What a clever post Mary.

Basically, we're supposed to ignore or at least substantially discount McCain's service record, and experience, and instead just think about issue, provided that we think about them in the context of thinking of McCain not as his own man, but rather as super glued to a currently "unpopular" president.

Obama will raise taxes dramatically and is in way over his head in terms of Putin, Ahmadinejad and so many others.

McCain has authored massively reformist bills with Democrats and ramrodded them through congress. Obama's authored not a single significant bill and has the most far left liberal voting record of any senator.

As you and I have debated over the years it is the sum of what constitutes "Well spent money" in defining FCSL.

My contention is when we are talking about two parties spending the same you look to where it is spent. Then you find out where the candidates stand. What does that represent. There is no way to separate Bush and McCain based on issues.

His war years have NOTHING to do with it. The question becomes how much more Bush do you want and can this country take.

Did you read the links? What are your thoughts on the breakdown? Don't they tend to go against your concepts?

talking points are us:

How convenient is it that John Kerry was "the most liberal" senator when he was running for president? That are the odds?!

I wonder if Hillary would have taken that title had she been selected?

McCain was a "liberal" by most conservative standards back in 2000...so no matter who a conservative votes for, they will more than likely be voting for someone more "liberal" than themselves.

dedicated to proving that Obama has a proven track record of bravery [however YOU define bravery] while McCain . . . well he has a 'cute' little story about Vietnam. Now you cry because someone called you on it? It that the Obama strategy?

Then you continue with the tired old campaign bullet point that McCain/Bush are one and the same thing. Funny that Bush himself didn't think so in 2000 when he dramatically separated himself from his rival politician with deep personal attacks.

So NOW you decide that you want to discuss the issues? Why this change of heart Marylb? Oh . . . wait . . . I get it, most of your fellow/sister Obama fanatic cheerleaders aren't currently standing by to BRAVELY help you savage McCain. Well, have a little patience, they will be by anon and will no doubt slap their stamps of approval on your little hate missive.

So . . . job well done!

aside Marylb-style hit pieces, I am voting for the McCain/Palin ticket because McCain is more nearly a Centrist than Obama and because I really, honestly believe that Obama dramatically lacks the experience necessary for the presidency in these troubled times.

Wait there's more! I also like the fact that it will be a democratically dominated and controlled legislative branch capable of balancing John McCain rather than the left wingnut version of the recent right wingnut reality of a rubber stamp congress voting kid blunder [G.W. Bush] anything and everything he wants, with no questions asked.

Now I understand that it is a dream come true of hard core Leftists to have a Left dominated legislature and a Left dominated executive branch in order to bring about the new age of Aquarius complete with copious acts of world wide kumbayah for one and all.

Yeah . . . that's the polar opposite equivalent that the right wingnuts thought that THEY would accomplish. They did not plan for it to be this huge dissaster. This means that it's NEVER a good idea to give radicals complete control of everything . . . not even if they happen to be of YOUR political party.

So these are the important reasons [although not all of my reasons] for voting for the McCain/Palin ticket.

And it is far more recent.

Palin's signature accomplishment is the passage of the Trans-Canada pipline bill. What is that all about?

It seems that the earlier proposal was to build a natural gas pipeline from the North Slope down to the open water ports in the south where the gas would be liquidfied and transported by ship to the lower 48.

What Palin was able to push through the Alaska legislature is a bill to build the pipline along the McKinzie River valley and into the lower 48. That doesn't sound too bad because it eliminates the costly liquidifacation process. But wait, it seems Alaska needs to come up with a $500 million advance before construction even begins. It gets better; it seems that much of the gas is earmarked to use for extraction of oil from the tarsands in Alberta, Canada. It seems that high heat is needed to coax the oil out of the sand. This process will dump a lot more polluting gasses into the atmosphere.

It seems that one of the reasons for the $500 million advance is the questionable financial condition of the company that is to build the pipeline. Since Gov. Palin gave back the surplus money Alaska had it will now need to sell bonds to come up with this down payment. As you might begin to expect, Gov. Palin's campaign manager just happened to be a lobbiest for the company that is to build the pipeline. I smell a rat.

No I think you are reading something into it that isn't there. Nice interpretation though. I see you want this to be about me still. You also want it to be about some vague catch phrase that keeps Obama supporters in another category than McCain supporters like yourself whose mind is closed to change. That's fine if that is what floats your boat. I don't really have time to play that game so I'll just say this:

Look at where you are today

Clearly look at the issue stances and solutions offered

Consider how much strain your life can take if we continue

And consider whether you want a new direction

If in the end, after you are completely aware of their issues you feel McCain is the best candidate for you and you can overlook the last 8 years and what it may have done in your life then pull that lever for McCain.

I don't much care but I do care that you at least know enough to make this important decisions that impacts you and myself incidentally. If what you have been through has taught you nothing when viewing evaluations of stances than that is your bag not mine. Please take special note of the Bush election stances if you can't find McCain. Very much alike.

I can't say that Obama's issues plans will succeed because he has concepts that are untested but I can say that McCain's stances have already been tested when Bush tried them and I know those failed.

So I can have hope and to be willing to try a statesman or continue being a blazing idiot by extending the luxury of results as they are today. Good luck.

As you and I have debated over the years, you cannot be a "conservative" in any way if you believe it is okay to confiscate money from free people in a wealth redistributionist system. What you deem to be "well spent money" is still money coming out of other people's pockets for politicians to spend and that which they see fit. Obama's health plan is socialism. Obama's tax plan attempts to pay for socialism and will do more harm to the economy than you would ever be willing to admit.

You can continue to try to discount McCain's war years all you want. The reasons I finally switched to McCain from whatever protest vote I could cast for a libertarian are several:

1. Obama is too liberal. I always wanted him to lose, but I was afraid McCain was too much of a liberal in conservative clothing to give him my mandate.

2. The liberal's response to McCain's Palin pick has been astonishing. That he picked a conservative made me very happy, but was not in and of itself enough to get my vote. I don't know why in the hell I would be shocked by liberals doing anything, after all these years of watching them, but I was.

3. I did not actually know the true details of what McCain has been through for his country. You can discount it, but to do so is disgraceful and you ought to be ashamed of yourself. I believe we are in a War on Terror, and so does Obama incidentally, and I believe McCain is a million times better equipped to handle it than Obama.

4. McCain has promised to cut taxes and try to balance the budget. I believe in Supply Side economic bounces because I have seen them in the past, and know they happened before I was even born.

Your links don't go against a single of my concepts. Obama wants socialized medicine, and so do you. Obama wants to raise taxes and McCain wants to cut them.

You want to glue an individual to another man as if he is no longer his own man. That's a sneaky tactic that demonstrates you want to do more than just talk the issues, you want to frame the issues precisely your way before even beginning the conversation.

... if Democrats keep nominating their most liberal people for office. But they do keep doing that. All you have to do is look at Kerry's record and Obama's.

You call it "talking points", but Mary's post was nothing but talking points, and grandma's rabbit of all things.

And you're damned right about McCain. I had been refusing to vote for him all year long, and really was against him in quit a hardcore way. It wasn't until I saw the liberal insane reaction to Palin and learned even more of the details of McCain's service record that I decided we couldn't afford not to vote for the man.