is a stupid idea. We know that indeed they do exist. Take, for example, Iraq. Not every Iraqi wants to run out and join Al Qaeda to drive out the infidel occupier-- in fact, many iraqis, with good reason, are more afraid of the AQ nutbags than they are of the evil occupier. To them, AQ is somewhat the muslim equivalent of the priests who molested children in the US, or worse.

By your logic, we should just wipe out all the muslims, as they are all extreme. That would be somewhat a self-fulfilling prophecy. If faced with a war of survival, I'm sure even the moderates will fight fanatically. In truth, most Muslims don't want to kill, and often, they are ruled with an iron hand by those who ARE willing to kill.

In truth, most Muslims don't want to kill, and often, they are ruled with an iron hand by those who ARE willing to kill.

This is certainly true of Americans. :) I find this article by Hitchens falling into the well plowed groove of Robert Spencer's opinions. How much of our culture are we willing to cede to the idea of protecting the sensibilities of a religous group? How many of our own rights and protections are we willing to sacrifice to ensure that members of another religious group feel "welcome." I am with Hitch, the demand for respect carries with it an implicit "or else" threat. But there's a further problem, which is brought up by Robert Spencer and others, that misguided liberal mollycoddling (out of fear) is exactly what muslims in the west don't need. The fact that two separate legal systems in Germany, one for Germans and the others for muslims wishing to impose shiara on their own populace was found to be unconscionable. Many muslims come to the west because they WANT freedom, they want the ability to express themselves free from the rancor of the mullahs. They want western liberal human rights.

Yet the idea that Islam is extreme on its face and at its core cannot be easily denied. The muslims who want western values and have emigrated here to enjoy them have made the choice to interpret the more bellicose verses of the Koran as metaphors. To that extent they are mirroring the liberal Christians of the 18th Century.

So, while we preserve our freedom of expression and our right to criticize Islam, we must take care to nurture the idea that there are moderate muslims, and that they live in peace and harmony in accordance with the laws of the United States. I lived in a muslim neighborhood for many years, and I've never felt for one moment any threat overt or implicit from any of them.

this is the weakest point of hitch's argument - his failure to recognize that 95% (at least) of muslims are moderate in view.

in the christian religion there are "interfaith councils" where catholics, baptists, methodists, lutherans etc get together regular and reach a consensus. they take an open, unified stand against radicalism, by speaking out against anti-abortion violence, nutjobs who claim that earthquakes are a message from god, etc.

that doesn't happen in the islamic world, evidently. the majority of moderate islamists aren't taking a stand against the violent majority.

is it because they don't care? or are they afraid of getting shot by a masked gunman for speaking up?

I agree. His same arguments for why it is impossible to be a moderate Muslim also apply to every other religion in the world. The entire basis of (most) religion--belief in some higher being whose existence cannot be proven or disproven--may at face value seem incompatible with moderate views. However, the vast majority of religious people, Muslim or otherwise, manage to maintain a world view that allows for both the belief in religion, and in moderate, free society.

95 percent of muslims are moderate? Can I ask what you're basing that on?

Hitchens makes the argument that the holding of religious beliefs is immoderate by it's very nature. To be a muslim or a christian is to profess belief in the books of inconsistent mythology. To the extent that moderate muslims or christians exist, it is only by being bad christians or muslims, less prone to believe everything within those books of mythology.

Religious beliefs cannot be proven or disproven--but there is lots of evidence that they are not true, and zero evidence in their favor. I would also argue that those "interfaith councils," which I concede are extremely well-meaning organizations run by people who care deeply, represent that radical fringe in religion in America. It is the so-called radicals--anti-gay, anti-science, etc--whose churches are growing.

"95 percent of muslims are moderate? Can I ask what you're basing that on?"

The fact we are still alive, dimwit. If all 1.3 billion muslims were radicals, we'd be dead by now.

I know you don't belive in a power, but it seems like you've also rejected believe in math.

Atheism was so much cooler when the stupid atheists kept their mouths shut and let the smart ones do the talking. Damn you, internets!