It's not about Clinton. The reasons we originally chose Clinton over Obama was because he lacked experience and because he lacked a record that we could judge him against. Moreover, his associates have given us pause. He's worked for and launched his political career from the home of a known terrorist, Bill Ayers. Although, he deplores Ayers activites in the 60s, he still chose to work for him and, as I said, launch his political career from his home. His 20 year mentor and religious advisor, Rev Jeremiah Wright, was shown to be a racist and somewhat unstable. He's been associated with unsavory characters like Rezko. His treatment of his own constituents while in the Illinois Senate was horrible. He says now that he didn't know that his constituents were living in substandard housing, some of them condemned, that were built and managed by these same unsavory characters.

None of those things have changed. Therefore, how can you expect us to change our minds about him.

For many of us, we believe that Dean and Brazile helped him game the primary. I think eventually there will be many fine dissertations about it. But let's ignore that topic altogether.

Why in the hell would you expect us to vote for a man we didn't feel was even semi-qualified to be President? I'm not voting for McCain, but I sure as hell won't vote for someone I feel is not only unqualified, but also questionable in his judgement. Better a known quantity, even one I'm not thrilled about, then someone who is so highly questionable.

we expect you to realize that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton share the same views on 95% of issues, and we expect you to suck it up and pull the lever, for, god forbid, what you actually believe.

Since I know your not going to change your mind, I'll add this. Your candidate wasn't exactly too qualified, either. Remember 1994 Health care? Thats Hillary politics; maybe we'll get a base but we'll refuse to compromise and eventually lose and not getting anything we want. That seems to define what Clinton did this election; she could have been a hero, she could have even been VP, but she had to keep spending the money she's asking Obama to pay back. She isn't committed to winning right now. When's the last time you've seen her on a major program talking about Obama?

Case in point, he supported the filibuster of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair pay act. He said that women like her, whom had faced blatant sexual discrimination should "get more training."

Also, explain to me what kind of fool would say "Ta ta, Bin Laden. We are off to strengthen Putin and Iran by starting a pointless war in Iraq without adequate preparation, one that will separate us from all of our allies in the world, and leave you to reorganize and the Taliban free to retrain in Pakistan" ?

Also, explain to me how spending $9 BILLION a month in Iraq is helping us send our kids to college, or prepare to compete with the low wages for college grads in China and India, or to improve our infrastructure like the bridge that fell into the Mississippi River last year, or to change our economy to use renewable energy sources, or to implement T. Boone Pickens plan to move our cars to natural gas and a corresponding amount of electric production to wind power?

McCain IS the man with the experience of being WRONG time after time.

EML: eventually there will be many fine dissertations

LeRoy: Well, if John McCain is elected in November, I plan to immediately start working on my magnum opus. It will be titled: The Decline and Fall of the American Republic. There will certainly be at least a footnote devoted to the irrationality of the PUMAs.

There will probably be some good dissertations written about that, too.

He says he agrees with her, but he voted present more than anyone else in the Illinois Senate. He's missed some of the most important votes in his whopping 2 years in the US Senate that would determine most of my opinion of him. His platform was vague until he fleshed it out with details caged from Clinton. Sorry, but all your going on is his word. Hell, Bush's record was as thin and look were that got us.

Yeah, he SAYS one thing and does another.

EML:

Yeah, he SAYS one thing and does another.

Well, I'm sure we can agree that McCain is likely to follow through on his platform. So what would you rather have? A progressive Democrat who may or may not follow through on his promises? Or a conservative Republican who probably will?

She voted yes on the bankruptcy bill that failed and when Obama questioned her on it in one of the debates she said she was glad it failed???? So I guess she "changed her mind" on that and on the Iraq Resolution that even she admitted she never read. Oh yes...she is soooo much better than he.

worshipers don't want to understand the PUMA movement. They just want to rail against it.

Most of these political illiterates think that it is composed entirely of angry older women. They cannot comprehend that PUMA means Party Unity My Ass and that the movement represents men and women of all ages and races that are not going to vote for Obama.

The very concept is beyond their mental capacity to absorb.

Demcon, I'm pretty sure you don't really have a stake in any of this beyond some satisfaction over seeing the party divided.

PUMAs are idiots. They're like Bushbots, that dogged 30% that refuse to acknowledge that he's a terrible president. PUMAs are obsessed with one candidate and their reaction to her loss is utterly infantile.

It's not about Clinton.

Yes, we get that it's all about your childish little snit now.

Anything else?

Demcon isn't eligible to vote for anything more meaningful than class president and homecoming queen.

Demcon:

the movement represents men and women of all ages and races that are not going to vote for Obama.

This is true. The PUMA movement is NOT homegenous. It represents a broad swathe of women born in MANY different decades before World War II -- ranging from the 1920s right up to the 1940s. Moreover, many of these elderly ladies come from different racial backgrounds, including English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Scandinavian, and Germanic. There are scattered reports of a couple Greeks and even one Italian old lady.

This is a broad and diverse group of old ladies. They represent old ladies from across this great nation. The only thing they have in common -- aside from their passion for Hillary, of course -- is a reliance on electric scooter-chairs and a shared love for the Early Bird Special at Denny's. Diversity. That is the hallmark of the PUMA movement.

So what would you rather have? A progressive Democrat who may or may not follow through on his promises? Or a conservative Republican who probably will?

Depends on who is controlling Congress. It's a bad thing when one party controls all the levers.

Bill Clinton did good things after he lost Congress. For that matter Bush has gotten better since he lost congress.

The loony left is just as divorced from reality as the loony right.

Absolutely not true, Ziggy! They prefer the Country Kitchen Buffet.