I first heard about McCain's choice this morning and at first, knowing nothing about Palin other than her sex, thought "smart move."

But then I actually read about the woman's political beliefs and qualifications and thought "what a bunch of patronizing, out-of-touch idiots McCain & Co. are." Palin's problem is not that people don't know who she is; it's what they, in particular women, are going to think about her once they do.

McCain & Co apparently think that it is more important to women voters that they achieve symbolic victory of a woman presidential or vice-presidential candidate than it is for said candidate to actually support the rights these women believe in. WRONG. Women voters did not support Hillary Clinton because she was a woman. They supported her because of what she believed in, including things like reproductive freedom, equal access to health care, and gay rights. Palin opposes every one of these things. Women are not so stupid that they are going to ignore Palin's politics because she has to X chromosomes and a vagina.

We are NOT that stupid McCain, and it is incredibly insulting that you seem to think we are.

I am a woman voter and I am still going to vote for him. In fact, I am even more set to vote on him now than I was yesterday. And, its not because she is a woman. Its because I think having a person that is opposite of McCain with little experience be Vice President is a good idea. Its much better than giving the Presidency to someone with little experience. Palin could be President if something happens to McCain. That's a big IF. Obama would be President from the very beginning. And, that I am not comfortable with.

I don't think you should speak for all women voters. I am not insulted in the least. And, I think many women will feel as I do.

Do all women voters hold the same beliefs about "reproductive freedom, equal access to health care, and gay rights"?

"Women voters did not support Hillary Clinton because she was a woman."

This sentence needs to be trimmed:

"Women voters did not support Hillary Clinton"

There, now it's true.

You have a point-- that the people who would vote for hillary are not the same ones who would vote for Palin, but you generalizing about women supporting Hillary is funny. Hillary did not make inroads with republican women, nor did she make inroads with young women. Palin will have better luck with both.

I should have qualified what I was saying...of course all women voters do not have these same beliefs. I meant women voters who supported Hillary Clinton, who I believe McCain is obviously attempting to woo with his choice of Palin. I don't think he would have otherwise chosen such an inexperienced candidate.

McCain's own staffers have stated than winning the support of Hillary supporters is key to McCain winning the presidency. To think he can do that by choosing a female vice-presidential candidate, when that candidate's views on key issues fly in the face of almost everything Hillary Clinton stands for, is the insult.

No, they don't, which is why this "identity politics" is a big load of insanity, one among many.

The point of women's lib is equality, i.e. in this situation, you should not fail to vote for someone you agree with because she is a woman, etc., nor should you vote FOR someone you disagree with because she is a woman! Personaly, I would NEVER vote for someone I did not agree with basically, just because they are female or black or whatever.

The goal is not getting a particular office, the goal is ending discrimiantion, unfairness, raising up human dignity and justice...and if we can do that, we will choose the best person whatever their race or gender!

That was the original point, before identity politics, which in my opinion is one of the worst things that ever happened to progressive people.

However, I do agree that McCain's choice is insulting, but not only to women; he is very old, and his wealth will not save him from aged illness, and so he should have picked someone who could actually be the president. I don't think he will win, so its moot, but this shows me he is a very flip, glib person who doesn't have a handle on the real world (but I already knew that when he claimed I was Georgian and my leader that idiot, Saakashvilli).

If the right wing prefers to have someone liike Palen in that job, they are fools. Kay Bailey Hutchenson would have been a better choice if McCain wanted to play this game.

"Its because I think having a person that is opposite of McCain with little experience be Vice President is a good idea."

so what you're saying is, Dan Quayle is your standard of excellence for VPs?

kerfuffles:

I should have qualified what I was saying...of course all women voters do not have these same beliefs. I meant women voters who supported Hillary Clinton, who I believe McCain is obviously attempting to woo with his choice of Palin. I don't think he would have otherwise chosen such an inexperienced candidate.

McCain's own staffers have stated than winning the support of Hillary supporters is key to McCain winning the presidency. To think he can do that by choosing a female vice-presidential candidate, when that candidate's views on key issues fly in the face of almost everything Hillary Clinton stands for, is the insult.

So then how is "McCain's VP choice . . . an insult to women" generally? Based on your new qualification, shouldn't the title of your post be, "McCain's VP choice is an insult to women who supported Hillary Clinton, but not necessarily to other women"?

Your point about identity politics is exactly the point I was trying to make, but my imprecise language seems to have come across saying almost the opposite.

Supporters of Hillary Clinton, both men and women, did not support her because of her sex. They supported her for what she believed in and stood for. If McCain hoped to win any of these supporters by choosing a Palin because she was a woman--which I believe he did--he missed the boat entirely. It's her politics that matter, not her sex. And her politics are just about opposite of Hilary Clinton's.

Hope I made that clearer.

It seems to me that McCain thinks that women are interchangeable. Being a soccer-mom is not the same kind of experience as having spent a life-time in politics, including a stint as first lady. Hillary must have spent the day laughing despite her gracious message to the McCain campaign. What is really scary is to think that McCain, 72, just might die in office, and then Sally Soccermom will be steering what will soon be a sinking ship! How will she help the economy? Was she the treasurer for the soccer team once? She also believes there is no acceptable reason for an abortion - even rape, according to what I've read. The fact that she actually entered a beauty pagent means that she's all for the objectification of women too. Nice. Furthermore, if she has such a family values type platform, exactly how much good is she going to be as a mother for her new baby, who sadly has special challenges as it is? There's something really twisted going on here. Pandering to women is one thing, John McCain, but this kind of an insult defies description. Not only does McCain need to find out how many houses he owns, he needs to find out what makes women tick. The phrase that keeps coming to mind is "diminished mental capacity". It can happen to people as they age. The Republican ticket just gets scarier and scarier. Obama keeps proving to the world that his judgement is solid as a rock.

"Do all women voters hold the same beliefs about "reproductive freedom, equal access to health care, and gay rights? " Of course not. But that is the point in a way. Any woman voting simply on the basis of her being a woman is foolish and not considering the country first. Someone who did not support the Hillary agenda (which in short is above) wouldnt have voted for Obama anyway-their agendas are similar. So what has McCain got from this pick? Only the religious nutties......

Like I said, I should have been more precise in my language, i.e., McCain's VP choice is an insult to women who supported Hillary Clinton.

Your assumption-laden post says far more about you than it does Gov. Palin.

Actually kerfluffles, Danilynn24 already stated in a previous post that she supported hillary clinton before barack won the primary.
Personally I think you are overestimating human intelligence too much, or more precisely, you are underestimating how much people voted based on their hearts and not their minds.

Unfortunately, most humans need to trust others before they can judge the output of those others. It is not a bad thing, and its not conscious, rather its a natural social process. Unfortunately, this process interferes with other forms of cognition, like reasoning. In a political race, unfortunately, most people need to process this "trust" factor before they can actually think about the issues. As a result, irrelevant things like personality and identity interfere with the normal cognitive process of "do I agree with what this person is saying".

On top of that, much of this processing is probably done after the fact and not from moment to moment. As a result, people will often defend this interfering process by waving their hands and saying it matters (with little logic to back them up, normally). Politicians are smart at getting people to support them, and know how to use this interference to their advantage, especially when they their product (i.e. policy) is poor.

Identity politics, character politics, cults of personality are all stupid, irrelevant, and dangerous. Unfortunately, that's what gets votes because people, like Danilynn24, can't override their hearts with their minds.

I have been a Dem for over 30 years and after what the Dems did to Hillary, I am voting for McCain. I think what McCain did was brilliant! Yes, I feel we were robbed not having Hillary as the Dem nominee but I was far more insulted by what the Dems and Obama did than anything McCain has done. I will never be a Dem ever again after what they did to her...the Dems are clearly not for women!