The fact of the matter is that whether this man has "needs" or not, porn DOES demean women and it is morally wrong. And yes, the woman has every right to be upset. It demeans their marriage, too. It also demeans the men who watch it.

Nearly all of the women involved in porn were traumatized as children, and all of them go through extremely coarse conditions on the set of porn films. Many of the women involved in porn start out being managed by agents who deliberately send them off to the most degrading and violent pornographers as a means to "break them into" the industry. The agents themselves often do this for their own sexual satisfaction and will masturbate openly on the set of each film. Before Max Hardcore was prosecuted for obscenity, he was a big favorite "first" for these agents. Khan Tusion is another.

Most of the women in porn are sent off to do these and other similar "gonzo" films where the main purpose is to fill them up with as much cock as possible, or psychologically traumatize them as much as possible. They're called degrading names on the set, many of them are raped off-screen, and some are coerced into doing things they did not originally agree to do. And then when they say, "But I wasn't signed up for this," the response is, "We'll sue you if you don't go through with it." And since many of them are uneducated, financially desperate, and emotionally vulnerable, they'll do it. There's also something called "privates" where the woman shows up, there's no cameras, and it's basically prostitution. And when they try to refuse, the pornographer says, "Well, your contract says this is a part of your work here." There's blatant prostitution on the porn industry on web sites like pornstarescorts.com, and the reason is because the women would rather get paid $1500 for a quick fuck than to spend 6 miserable hours on the set for the same amount of cash.

STDs are also a tremendous problem in the porn industry, and some females claim that all of the women have herpes. HPV is also extremely common, and often the women hide yeast infections by inserting sponges into their vaginas.

Drugs also are a tremendous problem! A lot of the women will admit that around 85% to 90% of the workers there are addicted to drugs. Moreover, some of the women who represent groups that support the industry's rights are open xanax addicts, marijuana addicts and alcoholics, so I'm sort of wondering, "Gee, should they really be representing the industry?"

Porn is nothing but exploitation, and it destroys people's lives. And yes, that woman has every right to be upset at this guy for masturbating to porn. Not only are they married, but every porn user, no exceptions, is unwittingly (or perhaps not!) supporting rape, child abuse, drug addiction, and an overall state of human misery!

Izak:

, porn DOES demean women and it is morally wrong.

Your opinion. I don't feel demeaned by it. My personal worth is not based on the actions of other people.

Izak:

, Nearly all of the women involved in porn were traumatized as children, and all of them go through extremely coarse conditions on the set of porn films.

Prove it. For instance, the porn actress in this interview doesn't sound particularly traumatized:

<link>

Izak:

They're called degrading names on the set, many of them are raped off-screen, and some are coerced into doing things they did not originally agree to do.

Rape is illegal. If this was such a widespread problem, it would be known. So I'd like to see some sources.

Izak:

and the reason is because the women would rather get paid $1500 for a quick fuck than to spend 6 miserable hours on the set for the same amount of cash.

If a person makes a decision *you* disagree with because of the financial benefit, I see nothing wrong with that. The women who do porn or strip *could* work at McDs, Walmart, or whatever. They picked a job based on how much they could make.

Izak:

STDs are also a tremendous problem in the porn industry, and some females claim that all of the women have herpes.

And some females claim that they're the virgin Mary. Yes, STDs are a problem and this is one reason why I think the industry should be regulated like Prositution is in Nevada. So, where are your studies showing rate of infection? Saying "so-and-so says" is meaningless.

Izak:

A lot of the women will admit that around 85% to 90% of the workers there are addicted to drugs.

There you go again. Statistics. Word of mouth is meaningless.

Izak:

Not only are they married, but every porn user, no exceptions, is unwittingly (or perhaps not!) supporting rape, child abuse, drug addiction, and an overall state of human misery!

More hysteria. "Oh my god, adult women getting paid to do sex makes people rape children!!!"

Saying "so-and-so says" is actually very meaningFUL when it comes to an industry that guards its practices very well and there's consequently very low amounts of raw data that can be empirically gathered. For example, if I say, "There's a lot of drug use in the mafia," you could just as easily say, "That's not true, I'm not listening, I need a study to prove it, la la la la," and the reason is because there's no statistic that says, "85% of Mafia workers are addicted to drugs."

Luke Ford, Scott Fayner, Sierra Sinn, Belladonna, Sasha Grey and countless others write and speak openly about the amount of drugs and STDs in the porn industry. The first two are gossip writers for the industry who treat it as very commonplace because they see first-hand the amount of bullshit the women have to deal with. Even Nina Hartley, an outspoken proponent for porn, describes a very seedy underbelly to the industry where women are exploited and abused, and she wishes the abusers weren't there. If you don't want to listen to anyone involved in the industry who speaks about the industry, and then you give me some interview with a woman who's obviously lying through her teeth in order to protect the business, what point is it that you're even trying to make? It's not like you can pull any stats that say, "100% of porn stars are happy, well-adjusted women, wooo!" or anything even resembling that.

<link>

Here's just one of about a hundred resources I can pull up on this issue. If you need more, just say so! It doesn't really seem like it's going to matter anyhow though, because in the wacky world of Physics Girl, Champion For Free Speech, these women are obviously just a bunch of dumb cunts who are upset because they didn't make the front cover of Fuck Pigs #23 or whatever the hell.

One day, you might actually try READING THE LETTER, before you go off on a screaming hissy fit about the world at large and titty pictures in specific. The LW really didn't seem to care about the porn itself, just the fact that it was on the computer and that her husband was masturbating.

That's a LONG way from the end of the world as we know it.

I know, I know, you're an eighties person and it's evah-so-fashionable to be politically correct about everything from wearing non-exploitive pantyhose and buying the yogurt with the best graphic on the package according to Cosmopolitan. Good for you. I'm glad you can still tell the world just how "aware" you are. Of course this is all notwithstanding the fact that the poor man may have been looking at nothing more "exploitive" than the Victoria's Secret online catalogue.

But this isn't about you, it's about a young woman with a six-week-old baby who had a meltdown worthy of a tired toddler, thwarted in its desire to put the turtle in Daddy's shoes. It's about a normal young man who is still in the hopelessly randy stage of life apologizing profusely for being a normal young man who is still in the hopelessly randy stage of life, if only to avoid the aforementioned meltdown.

As for the "seedy underbelly" that you mention.....try finding ANY business WITHOUT a seedy underbelly. I dare you. I know for a fact that you can't do it. You may not choose to see it, but there are nasty doings all over the world all the time. Maybe you don't want to see it? That's probably it. If you took the time to really LOOK at the rest of the world, you'd have to acknowledge that there are evil rotten things that aren't confined to the narrow vision you've chosen.

Now THAT would fuck up your tiny little world view, wouldn't it?

"Most of the women in porn are sent off to do these and other similar "gonzo" films where the main purpose is to fill them up with as much cock as possible, or psychologically traumatize them as much as possible."

This is giving me a raging clue.

Izak:

For example, if I say, "There's a lot of drug use in the mafia," you could just as easily say, "That's not true, I'm not listening, I need a study to prove it,

Claims require proof. If a claim is true, then it should be possible to have data on it. After all, there has to be something that caused this hypothetical true claim. This is especially true given that it is not illegal to be a porn star. The difficulty in gathering data about drug use in the mafia stems from identifying who is part of the mafia. With pornography there are thousands of women and men who admit to performing or having performed in porn films. Gathering statistics on them should not be difficult.

Izak:

Even Nina Hartley, an outspoken proponent for porn, describes a very seedy underbelly to the industry where women are exploited and abused, and she wishes the abusers weren't there.

There are many jobs where the workers are abused and exploited in this country. People who work in laundries, as farm laborers, and poulty processers are often abused and exploited. However, there is no campaign to ban chicken.

Izak:

If you don't want to listen to anyone involved in the industry who speaks about the industry, and then you give me some interview with a woman who's obviously lying through her teeth in order to protect the business, what point is it that you're even trying to make?

And now you see the problem with saying, "Women say this." as back up for an arguement? Or are you merely saying, "People who agree with my opinion are correct and people who do not, are not correct. The former is evidence and the latter is not evidence."

Izak:

It's not like you can pull any stats that say, "100% of porn stars are happy, well-adjusted women, wooo!" or anything even resembling that.

Of course not. That's not true. There is no job in the whole world where 100% of the people who do it are happy and well-adjusted.

Izak:

It doesn't really seem like it's going to matter anyhow though, because in the wacky world of Physics Girl, Champion For Free Speech, these women are obviously just a bunch of dumb cunts who are upset because they didn't make the front cover of Fuck Pigs #23 or whatever the hell.

Now you're placing words in my mouth. I do feel free speech should be protected. I feel women are capable of picking the jobs they wish to do, whether the job is nuclear physicist or stripper. Are some jobs less desirable than others? Certainly. Does the porn industry need some oversight? Certainly. But every job has it's risks. For instance, police, firemen, and miners can face significant health and safety risks on their jobs. But you don't see people going around claiming that, "Mining is evil. We shouldn't do it. The men who mine are being exploited. People who use coal are morally bankrupt." do we? (Well, maybe a few wacked out far left environmentalists do say this sort of stuff.)

My point is that some jobs are riskier than others. Regulations should exist to minimize risks. But because pornography deals with sex, it gets a lot more attention than other risk filled jobs. I also take exception to the idea that women aren't capable of making decisions for themselves, and so must be protected from jobs like stripping, prostitution and pornography.

I've read this crap before. This rather shrill line of accusations comes from a standard set of charges repeated frequently by people who sell their booklets and make personal media appearances. They work very hard at suckering well-meaning but sexually repressed people such as yourself who are really worried that someone somehow out there might be having a good time. You've been duped, lady.

you raided Lord Barrymore's digs soon after his demise, and made off with his astounding collection of erotica that was rightfully promised to me in his will.

Speaking of that, rent "Harold and Kumar escape from Guantanimo." The scene where they walking in on the bottomless party in Miami is classic. And you can tell your wife "I'm shocked and didn't know that was going to happen."

KA

I'm finding it all pretty funny that the best anyone can do is try to paint some sort of picture of me. "Oh, you're saying that because such and such." You all have no idea where I'm coming from, and more importantly, it doesn't matter because it has nothing to do with my argument.

At any rate, there are two valid arguments that I'll address.

PhysicsGirl, it actually IS quite difficult for a serious sociologist or statistician to do any real research into the porn world. The reason is essentially the same as to why it's difficult to seriously research the inner-workings of the world of pro wrestling. Both industries rely on illusion, and quite often the performers will lie. It's very common. For example (and this is just one of the many), Jenna Jameson repeatedly lied about being raped. In fact, she was raped as a child, numerous times. The porn star has to do everything to conceal the discontentment they have with their line of work as well as the unfortunate circumstances that led them to have self-esteem low enough to pursue the line of work, and the reason is because not only is it more profitable for them, but it also is potentially dangerous for them not to. There are a lot of ties between the porn world and organized crime, and that's an undisputed fact.

Also, you seem to have accused me of insinuating that porn leads to rape and sexual assault. I never said anything like that. Most stats show that porn has no effect on any increase of rape or sexual assault. I said that porn is a PRODUCT of rape and/or abuse. That's a big difference.

MessyONE, hidden beneath all of the irrational whining and crying you've delivered against me, you make a striking point. Most industries have at least a few companies involved that have terrible working conditions, and a lot of worker exploitation. The difference, however, is that they all have a worker's union. Porn doesn't.

And yes, I stand by my argument, here. The husband has no excuse to be masturbating to pornography while his wife has been going through labor. I'm not going to get into the depth of their own relationship; I'm merely explaining why pornography is an indefensible industry from a moral standpoint.

my purloined porn collection?

KA

Richard Noggin had to come along and help me load it all into the rental truck. What a night that was!

My wife knows better, too. I can't get a break. I ahd to put most of the Barrymore collection in storage.

Izak: I'm finding it all pretty funny that the best anyone can do is try to paint some sort of picture of me.

Nope. My problem with your post is that it's too similar to a lot of others about porn. You've made almost all the standard and unproven criticisms of the porn industry. A little originality would have helped your case.

Izak: Most industries have at least a few companies involved that have terrible working conditions, and a lot of worker exploitation. The difference, however, is that they all have a worker's union. Porn doesn't.

San Francisco has a sex workers' organization; that's a lot like a union.

Izak:

The husband has no excuse to be masturbating to pornography while his wife has been going through labor.

That baby is six weeks old. Labor is over when the kid is delivered. She had time to sit down and look at a movie, so she's not overwhelmed and scurrying around doing everythig herself.

There is no porn collection. Richard and I are sworn to secrecy. This thing is bigger than all of us.

I'll give it to you on one issue: the man began watching porn after the woman gave birth -- two weeks to be exact.

Other than this, however, your counterargument is essentially "this argument is made too many times," which doesn't really prove anything at all. If anything, it aids my argument for you to say that. Apparently "too many" ex-sex workers and too many ex-porn addicts and too many others who understand the business are agreeing with me.

Congratulations on bringing nothing to the table!

"The husband has no excuse to be masturbating to pornography while his wife has been going through labor."

Now THERE'S an interesting mental image. Sounds like something out of Monty Python on acid. You really are a pip. When did you decide that the husband had an open magazine and open trousers in the delivery room? In your little fantasy world did he also have a nurse giving him a hand job while the baby was crowning? Yuck - I think a journey into your mind would be a nasty thing.

You're the one whose best answer is "because I said so" that that's your best defense. I notice that you STILL haven't said a single thing about the letter or about the LW. This leads me to think that you aren't terribly interested in it.

What you have done is decided, based on "stuff other people said once upon a time" is that you've found a new hobbyhorse to have fun with and pretend that you actually know something others don't. Tell me, do you get all moist when you yell at people?

There have been several studies done about sex workers and the porn industry over the years. One of my university professors did a two year study in England as part of her PhD thesis. Her conclusion was that yes, prostitutes are, with a few exceptions, generally a sad and sorry bunch. She also concluded that women who work in the porn industry form a definite hierarchy and that the industry is so large that they have a vested interest in running their businesses in a professional manner.

She interviewed literally HUNDREDS of women. All of the adult women that worked in the porn industry were there voluntarily. All of them. They were quick to point out that no one "made" them do anything. Many had husbands and children. Many were reasonably well educated. Almost none of them had been prostitutes. All were in it for the money.

Of course, I know that you'd rather listen to the pig-ignorant hysterical rantings of people who will also claim that all politics is about rape and that all women are prostitutes in their own homes. It's too bad you lead such a limited life. I'm guessing that you don't have a lot of fun.