If you make more money than 98 percent of the people in this country, how can you say you are middle class? By definition, you are not in the middle. You are near the top. Sure, you don't necessarily have huge investments and you still have to go to work every day, but you are extremely well off. These posters tying themselves into knots to assure everyone that they are not actually rich is such a silly spectacle. You're rich--be happy!

if someone lost their job and was living off of credit cards within weeks...are they rich? financially secure? really?

I don't understand how you people can't fathom the difference between gross and net income. someone making 150K who pays 45% of that in taxes is making the same amount of money as someone making 80K who has deductions out the wazoo...can you not understand that simple concept?

can you not understand that someone with 200K in student loans is making the same as someone who makes 20K less a year without student loans? do relative costs of living not matter? if the same beer costs you $3 in one town and $8 in another town (in an equivalent bar)...that should tell you something.

It is much more likely for the person with a $150K income to have higher deductions than the person with the $80K income.

"if the same beer costs you $3 in one town and $8 in another town (in an equivalent bar)...that should tell you something."

It tells me that, if you pay the $8 instead of the $3, you are being dumb or obstinate or like ostentation.

1. possibly. but I'm proof of the reverse as well. I made 125K last year and paid 45% of it in taxes.

2. huh? what I said was that in some cities a beer costs $3 while in other cities it can cost $8 for the same beer in the same type of bar. if this is news to you you really need to travel more.

If you pay $8 for a beer (and nobody drinks just one) when you could go elsewhere and pay $3 each, then it is you who needs to travel more.

For example, you could buy your beer at a things called a store instead of paying so much at a bar.

If you are making 250K a year, and you haven't saved enough money to last at least 6-12 months of unemployment, then you have not used your money wisely. Maybe a better way to phrase it is : you SHOULD be rich. You might have run yourself into the ground financially, but you technically are rich.

I'm confused, you're saying that no one should live in expensive cities? or that people in expensive cities shouldn't drink beer?

really?

let's say you've been making 250K for one year. you lose your job. you're paying 4K a month in rent and have ten months to go on the lease. that's an instant liability of 40K, even if you move in with your parents. you're paying 1.5K a month in student loans. that's another liability of 18K. so you're out 58K before food and job-search costs. (and people in 250K jobs are often interviewing internationally). but we'll assume that you move in with your folks and the job search fantastically costs nothing. let's assume that you netted 150K of that 250K income the previous year. we're going to have to assume that you saved over a third of that while paying rent and student loans.

simply not possible.

once again, you folks don't comprehend the difference between net and gross, the reality of student loans, and the cost of living in a world city.

Certianly if you are making that much money for ONE year, then the calculation is a bit different. I think a stable 250K a year is what we are talking about.

No, I most certainly do comprehend the difference, since I owe six figures in student loans, I live in one of those "world cities," and I get a paycheck every two weeks that shows how much I gross and how much I net. My point is that, if you are currently earning more than 98 percent of your countrymen, you are not middle class. You are upper class, or else the term "middle-class" doesn't mean anything. Your hold on upper-class-dom may be fragile, if your income is the result of a job that could be lost, but it is real nonetheless. Also, net income generally refers to income after taxes, not income after expenses are paid. If you own your own business and don't pay yourself a fixed salary, net income would be gross income less taxes and business expenses, but not less personal expenses. I "net" whatever the number on my paycheck says, regardless of what I end up being able to save. If I net $250,000, I'm in the upper class, even if I'm not as rich as someone who nets $1 million. Upper-class is relative to everyone else, and is not actually defined by feeling rich, but by earning more than most people. There's no actual shame in being upper class, but you aren't going to get a lot of sympathy from people who earn half of what you earn when you complain that you can't afford your $4000 rent.

Remarkable.

I make less than $40K a year and manage to save nearly half of it. I live mostly on rice and beans. I bet you don't.

What you do not comprehend is the importance of saving.

RealSleep: If you are making 250K a year, and you haven't saved enough money to last at least 6-12 months of unemployment, then you have not used your money wisely. Maybe a better way to phrase it is : you SHOULD be rich. You might have run yourself into the ground financially, but you technically are rich.

LeRoy: I applaud you. Shocking how such plain common sense is mostly absent from America today.

I don't think anyone disputes that anyone making 250K for a considerable length of time should have some assets. I'm talking about people in my peer group...who spent their 20's in school and are only now making money.

some of you need to learn the meaning of taxes, interest and housing in NY.

yes, I know you can live on 40K in Dallas (btw, 40K in Dallas buys as much as 110K in NY)

The reality of student loans is that YOU borrowed that money in order to enable a higher income (its doubtful you studied just for the pleasure of learning). So the fact that someone else does not have a student loan to pay off is not relevant to the discussion.

If you consistently pay $8 for beer, you are making a luxury (optional) purchase. You could go to the Wa-Wa store and buy a whole 6 pack of good beer for $8. Expensive luxuries that you can afford absolutely DEFINE WEALTHY. I make a fine living and choose to live in small town Texas... I am better off than most.... but I don't often choose the $8 dollar beer.... There are extremely few who are forced to live in Manhattan.... if you were willing to inconvenience yourself and live a short train ride away, you'd have more money to spend on $8 beers.... but these are choices you make and the fact you CAN make that choice.... well, sir, thats what being rich is all about....