People aged 18 and over are adults and entitled to all rights and benefits of adults - period. That ought to be the end of the story. What this article fails to note is the vast number of responsible young adults who have been hounded and arrested for drinking wine or beer responsibly. We have criminalized decent, often tax-paying citizens because a group of Nanny State Know It Alls believe that they should decide what is best for young adults.

It is disgraceful indeed that a person 20 years old and serving his or her country in Iraq can be arrested for drinking a beer with friends upon returning from battle. It is disgraceful indeed that someone has decreed that an 18 year old can die in battle but be prohibited from having a good-bye drink with friends ahead of time. Harsh justice indeed for America's young adults.

Mothers Against Drunk Driving would like to prohibit all people from drinking and stop anyone with even a trace of alcohol from driving. That is their true mission. I am sorry for their collective loss, but that does not give them the right to criminalize and punish innocent people.

Likely if we prohibited people under 25 from drinking, we would also see a drop in drunk driving arrests. Why not set the age at 30 or 35? What difference does adulthood matter? All people are children under this formula.

As for other countries - the study cited here is likewise a hoax. Any American who has lived in other countries knows the that the drunks usually are ex-pat Americans and British. When I lived in Armenia, they had no drinking age. There were no young people staggering drunk and disorderly down the streets. I have seen this same phenomenon in other countries, from Latvia to Estonia, Sweden, Croatia, etc... Countries connected to British history seemed to have the real problem - places like Ireland.

Go to any party of young adults from places like France and you will more often see the young adults drinking coffee, fruit juice or soda - very rarely will you see someone drunk.

The Mothers Against Drunk Driving helped educate people about the dangers of driving drunk and did a great service on that level. But they should not be the arbitors of when adulthood begins. They are not qualified. Also, they have a perspective that is warped by tragedy. They do not understand that teaching young people to drink and use alcohol responsibly should be done well before 21 - by that time it is too late. The French know this - as do many other countries that set reasonable limits on youthful drinking.

Colleges are not responsible for the social activities of young people - they are there to provide an education. They should not be involved in law enforcement to satisfy the political motivations of others.

After about the third paragraph I searched the author's name, expecting to find he was a spokesweasel for MADD. He's not, but he's preaching their prohibitionist blather word for word.

Who gave him the authority to tell everyone under 21 how to live? Every one of his suggestions reeks of Big Brotherism, and will be rejected by any freedom loving American. Unfortunately, there aren't enough of them in congress, so this nonsense is likely to continue.

yerevan2 wrote: "People aged 18 and over are adults and entitled to all rights and benefits of adults - period."

Succeed in your education and get a job. Unfortunately, those who exhibit the least responsibility often use the "rights" the most and most irresponsibility. I say, make 'em earn them!

I agree - what's wrong with the argument that someone can go to war, vote, be considered of the age of majority in every other way, but still can't have a beer? All the higher drinking age has done has created forbidden fruit.

The issue of underage drinking and drunk driving are two different issues and should be treated that way. MADD has done a splendid job of intertwining the two issues. But it's ridiculous.

Prohibition doesn't work, it isn't working now and it's never going to work. The only reason this prohibition has lasted as long as it has (v. that other one a hundred years ago) is that people eventually turn 21 & can drink. Unfortunately, we all wind up with stupid attitudes about alcohol that can take years to reverse. Whaddya mean sneaking a half case of beer before going out isn't cool??

Your discussion of foreign kids not drinking is ridiculous. As someone who graduated college within the last few years, still lives in a college town, and spent a lot of time with foreign students (large groups of German, French, Colombian, Swedish, and Chinese) who were in the states for a semester, I can assure you of two things:

- The drinking age being 21 does serve as a deterrent to binge drinking.

- The foreign kids party just as hard (except some Asians, mostly because they get too drunk too quickly, turn red, and hyperventilate)

To my first point: under aged kids have to find someone else to buy their alcohol (assuming basic enforcement of ID law), which isn't impossible, but isn't easy enough to just write off. Older friends aren't always chomping at the bit to run to the liquor store and fill your order, and fake ID's aren't as ubiquitous as it seems, especially ones that look like you and aren't expired.

And since these kids can't drink legally in bars, the binging that they do engage in is done mostly at home or at a friend's home, which is a more controlled environment.

And to the second point: I once had a plastered French student ask me after his fifth shot whether our drinking age of 21 just caused Americans to go overboard when they did come of age, then turn 90 degrees and throw up on his dorm room floor. This was not abnormal. The French and the Colombians were the first ones to start drinking and the last ones to make it back to the dorms, and they were no less likely than the American kids to be found passed out in the hallways or subway seats. And their countries' drinking ages are 16 and 18, respectively.

Also to the second point: The country with the biggest binge drinking problems worldwide is the UK, where the drinking age is 18. If you travel in international vacation spots, the ones falling in the street with puke in their hair are not Americans, they're Brits, and the places they're binging? Wherever the alcohol is cheapest.

Writing off published studies because of your own assumptions without offering data to back those assumptions up, is just silly.

You are talking about experiences in US Colleges where a handful of foreign students have been badly influenced by US Culture - they want to fit in - a similar phenomenon happens overseas when American kids go there to study - they take up smoking. Often both groups find these bad habits hard to drop. You really need to spend time overseas (and not just JYA) to get a full view of the situation. Please do not think that meeting a handful of privileged youth from college makes you knowledgable on this subject matter, notwithstanding your colorful antecdotes about four people.

You also fail to read my post - British-based cultures are certainly the worst, and we are a British-based culture. Americans and Brits are always the binge drinkers.

I have lived and worked overseas for a large number of years and spent considerable time in other countries. The French culture, along with the culture of most European countries does not tolerate binge drinking. This study cited is a hoax study, bought and paid for by people who support a perspective. I can cite plenty of studies on a wide range of topics that support one view or another that are false in their data, assertions and conclusions. Life experience teaches us that being a published "study" means little.

Ask any American living overseas and they will say the same thing - it is extremely rare to find binge drinking in these countries. It is considered poor behavior. The Americans and the Brits - the expats - almost always make idiots of themselves in these countries when they go binge drinking. I have seen it in Italy, Greece, Croatia, Armenia, Moldova, Latvia, Estonia, Sweden, etc... I also lived in a country which was poor and rural and we had American and Japanese Peace Corps organizations. The American Peace Corps Boys were known for getting drunk and behaving badly. The Japanese were known for their good behavior. They always stopped after one or two beers - I don't know about your rascist hyperventallating statement, but it is considered culturally unacceptable among the Japanese to be seen drunk in public. The Europeans were known for watching the American drunks - Peace Corps and Air Force - in complete disgust. The locals, unfortunately, had been ruled by America for 40 years and picked up their bad habits. They were a binge culture as well.

Selene212:

And since these kids can't drink legally in bars, the binging that they do engage in is done mostly at home or at a friend's home, which is a more controlled environment.

I disagree. Home is a less controlled environment than a bar, especially for inexperienced teen drinkers. First of all, there is the tendency to make drinks as "strong" as possible. Secondly, there isn't anyone experienced enough with drinking to realize when someone has a problem. Thirdly, the worry about getting caught means that they are less likely to seek help even if they recognize that there is a problem.

Selene212:

The country with the biggest binge drinking problems worldwide is the UK, where the drinking age is 18.

Drinking age isn't the only factor when it comes to determining whether there will be a significant youth drinking problem. Culture also plays a large role, along with the economy.

For the record, British-based cultures are not the only ones with binge-drinking. I was born in Ukraine and I can tell you (as I'm sure you've heard) that Slavic-based cultures can hit the bottle, too. Last I heard, there was effectively no minimum age to buy beer (real beer with alcohol, not Bud Light) and 18 was the barely enforced minimum age to buy liquor in Russia. Still don't see how any of this affects the argument for or against lowering the drinking age.

Selene, the problem with your post is that you keep refering to 18 years olds as kids. This is legaly absolutly false. They are adults. Equal protection of the law requires that they be able to drink like everybody else.

As a college student, I hear this conversation more or less constantly. I think that it's important to acknowledge that the US government trusts people to (as we've already heard) vote, join the military and get shot, watch porn, etc. etc. etc, but no one has mentioned that 18 is also the legal age to STAR IN PORN MOVIES. In our Puritanical society, does anyone find that glaring hypocrisy incomprehensible?

I also grew up in the UK and yes, public drunkenness and binge drinking is a lot more common than on the continent, but this is not something that just the young/uni students do. Mums get drunk. Old men get drunk. Drinking in the afternoon is not considered a symptom of alcoholism. It's part of the culture. However, a majority of Brits aren't reliant upon cars to get home at the end of the night like they are here, which makes the drunken behavior and all that goes with it distasteful and perhaps personally destructive but it does not put other drivers at risk . I always thought being a "free country" (whatever that means) means that stupid decisions aren't criminal.

I've spent time (3 wks-3 months) in Italy, Ireland, Spain, and along the French riviera, and whether there is binging depends on the price of the liquor, the age demographics, and whether it is a college or tourist area, just like in the US.

And my only experience with foreigners in the states is not limited to college students. When I lived in DC, it was popular for northern and eastern European twenty-somethings to come to the US for a few months waiting tables or working as lifeguards, and the last train out of town was always packed with groups of four or six people speaking Czech and trying to stay awake. It wasn't about fitting in for them; it was about having fun.

Also, my statement about east Asian drinkers is not racist, it's true. A large percentage of people of east Asian decent lack a gene called ALDH2 that aides in the digestion of alcohol. This lack can make drinking unpleasant, causes "Asian flush", and may be related to lower rates of alcoholism among those populations.

Physicsgirl,

On drinking in the home- You have good points about drinking in the home vs drinking out. My rationale is based largely on the transportation from point A to point B and the environment of bars... in other words, the secondary effects of drinking out (drunk driving, going home with strangers, getting lost in unfamiliar or crowded areas, etc.) than the primary. As far as dying purely from alcohol poisoning goes, you may be right. I'd like to see statistics on all of these things, really.

And I agree that age is not the only factor; my point in bringing up the British issue was to demonstrate that lowering the drinking age is not likely to lower the rate of binge drinking in a culture that supports binge drinking as a common form of social interaction. There may be sound reasons to lower the drinking age, but the theory that it would discourage binge drinking is not one of them. College culture in the US will continue to support binge drinking, especially for younger kids ("inductees") regardless of whether the drinking age is 21 or 18. All the 21 age limit does is limit access to alcohol and to alcohol-filled environments for the younger students.

Travel more. Vacations for 3 or 4 months do not count. Real expats do not consider that living overseas,

I have Asians in my family. They can drink if they choose to do so. That ALDH2 story isn't worth much - many Asians laugh at that idea. I think that's an urban myth - or an idea that has received far too much play.

We've all met students from overseas. My real home is DC and I have met real people of varied races there as well. Although I have lived in the former Soviet Union, I will say that With regard to drinking, European youths behave much worse when they are under the influence of American culture. Fun takes on a whole new meaning.

Again, it's the same thing with smoking - American young adults who go overseas often pick up this bad habit and find it hard to shake when they return.