LW #2: I'm sorry but the mom who wrote in about her miserable life as a mother sounds more like a huge whiny ass.

"Poor me! I'm overeducated and now I regret placing my degree on the shelf to be a mommy".

Dear Lady - If you read this - take my advice and stop being such a martyr. It's called "Gerber" - it won't kill your children. There's also something called "Huggies". I also went to NapaValleyTV.com and learned some interesting facts about autism from Dr. Noa on the "21st Century Health". Check out the August 4th Show. Good nutrition can actually reverse the effects of autism. Look it up - it's not as genetic as people think it is. Your child needs you to be in one piece - not resenting him (because honestly you do. Did you READ your letter?).

LW #3 Why are you looking to Prudence? She gave you some great advice, but you already knew what she was going to say. Anyone in their right mind would tell you the same.

You need to go out and buy one of Dave Ramsey's book and give it to your father-in-law - who sounds like one of those gamblers that can't stand to lose. Getting rich quick is impossible when it comes to money. You and your husband are one in a million when it comes to your finances. Being independent and free of debt is the most awesome place to be in this life. Do you really want to be taking care of your family AND his parents? They lived their lives. Time for them to grow up - don't you think? Sounds like your husband's dad needs to go out there and get something called a J-O-B and a Roth IRA.

Dear LW #4 -

I have the same problems. That's why I turn my cell phone, computer and PDA off in the evenings. It takes discipline not to answer the phone all the time. I agree with Prudie that it must be something about our generation - we're so accessible. Be upfront with your friends and tell them you've made plans with someone else and inviting themselves along is rude.

I think you're a little harsh on LW#2. I don't often side with the LWs because most are whiners who already know the answer to their question.

This is different. Her obsessiveness about things may have begun with a TYPE A personality, but throw in PPD (and yes, it can manifest itself WAY after you've actually given birth) plus an autistic kid, and you are well on your way to Depression Hell.

I went through something similar with my first daughter and she was a relatively easy baby. Nonetheless I found myself calling up my mom and saying that holding my baby made my skin crawl and I had many fantasies about getting in the car and leaving . . . without the baby. I'm glad the worst feeling I had was the skin crawling thing. I can't imagine feeling like harming or killing your baby . . . but it does happen.

At first, yes, the LW comes across as someone trying to be a martyr and a superwoman (cloth diapers and homemade baby food! FUCK THAT!) and if that was the only thing she said, I would have agreed. But her still feeling inadequate despite what she does and her wanting to run away - it took 2 seconds for my doctor to tell me what it was - DEPRESSION.

She needs medication like NOW to get her chemistry back in order and she absolutely needs the therapy as Prudie suggested. It sounds like her husband is also supportive even if he hasn't clued in on the Depression yet. He certainly doesn't sound like Andrea Yates' husband (who I still think should be tried and hanged . . . or maybe just hanged . . . by his balls).

Cheers.

I was really shocked to see LW #2 sandwiched in with Prudie's usual whinning morons looking for justification of their bad behavior.

This woman clearly has NO IDEA how depressed she is. The obsessions over baby food, diapers, clean house, etc - that's all her manifesting her feelings of hopelessness and failure. I'll bet if pushed she'd admit that she feels totally responsible for the child being autistic in the first place. I agree it sounds like the husband is trying to help, but since she's largely irrational, he probably feels helpless. By the end of that letter I just wanted to find her, wherever she was and get her to a therapist IMMEDIATELY. PPD or just regular depression - she needs help.

This isn't how she imagined her life. she's was probably very sucessful at school and work - nothing prepared her for this.

I don't think I will be able to "shake-off" her letter for a long time... just really horrible stuff. I hope she's ok.

...and I have always wanted 15 minutes alone in a room with Mr. Yates.

The lady was a TOTAL bitch. I would divorce the bitch if, after I put her thru grad school, she decided to be a stay at home parent, THEN claimed to be burned out, then rejected any solution offered to alleviate the stress.

I'm sorry, I don't buy the whole "being a stay at home parent is the obvious choice for devoted parents!" argument. Maybe I come off harsh or not enlightened, but I think MOST people who decide to "stay at home" probably should go out and get a fucking job. Yes, she has a child with special needs, so of course it is a special circumstance, but kids don't need to be around one of their parents 24/7, and even special needs kids just don't benefit from this kind of devotion. Give me a break, "I'm a hop, skip, and a jump away from going all Andrea Yates on my family, but HEY. I CAN'T skip corners when it comes to my kids!"

onlymaryjane:

The lady was a TOTAL bitch. I would divorce the bitch if, after I put her thru grad school, she decided to be a stay at home parent, THEN claimed to be burned out, then rejected any solution offered to alleviate the stress.

I'm sorry, I don't buy the whole "being a stay at home parent is the obvious choice for devoted parents!" argument. Maybe I come off harsh or not enlightened, but I think MOST people who decide to "stay at home" probably should go out and get a fucking job. Yes, she has a child with special needs, so of course it is a special circumstance, but kids don't need to be around one of their parents 24/7, and even special needs kids just don't benefit from this kind of devotion. Give me a break, "I'm a hop, skip, and a jump away from going all Andrea Yates on my family, but HEY. I CAN'T skip corners when it comes to my kids!"

Why don't you tell us how you really feel? Thank God I'm not as judgmental as you are!

Parents do for their children what is best for THEIR family, not to adhere to what YOU think is correct thing to do.

Somebody in another thread brought up a good point (and good deduction!) - she probably meant to go back to work after having the first child and it turns out autistic and in her best estimation, it would be better to stay at home. They could afford it, so she did. For some reason she got pregnant again and I'm not sure of the age difference, but this second one probably set her off.

And the reason why she's asking for help is because like many of us who suffered from PPD or other forms of depression, the fact that you are depressed doesn't really hit you right away. It sounds like she figured it out the same way I did that something was wrong: she feels like a failure despite her well-intentioned efforts and she wants to run away. Mine was my skin crawling when I held my child and wanting to run away. I hardly think she KNOWS what the problem is and is ignoring it, otherwise she wouldn't be writing the letter.

Try a little compassion, Tom Cruise. Jesus Christ!

onlymaryjane:

The lady was a TOTAL bitch. I would divorce the bitch if, after I put her thru grad school, she decided to be a stay at home parent, THEN claimed to be burned out, then rejected any solution offered to alleviate the stress.

wow, bitter much?

She acknowledges her husband is trying to help and that she's lucky to not have to go to work everyday - and that she feels that he shouldn't have to help her run the house.

i don't think you could possibly hate the LW more than she hates herself for the choices she's made and where she is right now. Part of mental illness is tunnel vision - being completely unable to see even the most obvious ways out.

ladykrystyna:

I'm not sure of the age difference, but this second one probably set her off.

she mentions she's still nursing an infant... sounds about right on for PPD.

I was recently stunned to realize that anti-depressants pass through breast milk, and that many nursing monthers won't take them for that reason. (i've never had kids, but have had anti-depressants.) what a horrible choice to have to make, but in the end, a child needs a healthy mother more than he/she needs breastmilk.

onlymaryjane, have you ever had children? Have you ever been a child? You must be having a really bad day. They usually happen right about the time dinner needs to be made, the kid(s) are tired and hungry and Dad's about to come home and you just wish the water would boil! I'm so glad that was 20 years or so ago. When you have one normal baby and one mother who's got ppd and is not sure she's qualified to take this baby home in the first place, the sleep deprivation starts when the vacuuming takes place any time the baby lets it take place. Sleep is low priority. I couldn't afford Pampers in 1982, and I was a lot cheaper than formula. I don't know how people with more than one child do it.

As soon as you start working away from home, you have to drive there and back, work with the Daycare, talk to them from work, make enough money to pay for the Daycare, wonder if kids or adults are mentally or physically torturing your child, and how you could find out, and then...do all the work at home that hasn't been done while you were driving and working--that was so restful, and much better for the kids than rotting with mommy at home.

I have a healthy son with no developmental problems. Moms are guilty. Whether others blame them or not (they do), moms want desperately to do a good job, and if your child has autism, you want to learn about his condition and try any therapy you could work at to help him, especially since it does not have a predictable course. This mom has the symptoms of depression, and whether or not she has education, family and money does not affect the occurance of this disease, I hope she realizes how valuable to her family she is and gets treatment to feel better and care for herself and her family. She is not spoiled or whiny.

Haha. I don't hate her. I don't give a shit about her. I just stated my opinion, which, OBVIOUSLY you two disagree with based on you jumping into personal attacks (but I'm the bitter one...) but fine. Let's argue the fact, instead of me continuing y'all's little pattern and assuming you are ALSO lousy housewives... You say mental illness. I say she feels rightfully guilty that she cost her family thousands of dollars and made a poor choice not to use her education to get a good job, but torn because she still sort of feels like she had no other choice. Maybe "bitch" and "divorce" were a LITTLE harsh, but I think she has some much needed "snapping out of it" rather than MORE costs to the family with therapy when she's refusing to modify her behavior.

I said what a lot of other people were thinking, and even Prudie SAID in a nicer way. Stop spending hours making work for yourself. Your family is about to fall apart because you're losing it, but "can't cut any corners!!" It's ridiculous.

onlymaryjane:

Let's argue the fact, instead of me continuing y'all's little pattern and assuming you are ALSO lousy housewives...

Assume all you want. I work 80 hours a week and my husband stays home and I'm about to put him through grad school - which he may or may not use, but he is passionate about it, and it makes me happy that I can help him follow his dreams while pursuing mine. And I don't have kids - I have sympathy.

I have a child on the way, thank you. I've also known PLENTY of 17 year olds to pop out babies, finish school, which is the same amount of hours as a full time job, GO to a full time job, and still raise a child. Ideal situation? Maybe not. EVERYBODY would love to spend more time with their children. But this woman wants her cake and to eat it, too. She's obsessed with the idea that she should be able to be a super mom, but when she can't handle it, she won't just back down. If there aren't enough hours in the day, don't take on silly tasks. There's an ungodly amount of organic, fresh baby food out there, and even that is overkill. And hey! You guys are RIGHT, everyone gets to choose how they raise their kids! But if the method doesn't work, you don't get to keep doing it and then whine about it!

My opinion. But I guess feel free to call me a bitter, ignorant-cuz-I-don't-have-kids asshole some more.

I know staying home everyday with kids with no break can chop ones self esteem right down. There comes a point when that is all a stay at home mom knows, poop, food & house cleaning.

I don't think you're an asshole and I don't think it has anything to do with kids - it has to do with having depression, a serious illness that makes you think and feel crazy things, because, well, you're crazy.

Your opinions about stay at home moms are legitimate, but inapposite to this situation - this woman is complaining because she is legitimately in trouble. Your hositlity in refusing to accept that this person is seriously ill and in danger of hurting herself AND her kids is really shocking to me and probably anyone else who has ever had depression. Like I said - you can't possibly hate this woman any more than she hates herself. If you told her she was a selfish, ungrateful bitch, she would totally agree with you.

Hahahaha- oh my gosh, TexasLisa, WHERE are you. I am NOT hostile! I used the word "bitch" because I agreed with it, not because I read her little letter and thought "That fucking bitch! I'm going to go post something nasty on the Fray about her!"

I still disagree with the mental illness diagnosis by the ten thousand people who are not her psychologist. "But if you agree none of us are qualified to diagnose her, don't you agree she should also be seeking professional help?" you ask. MAYBE. That would be her call. I just stated my lay opinion, which shall be used for the purposes of discussion only, that I don't think she's mentally ill. Self esteem issues? Sure. Brought on by her poor choices. And the kind of cognitive and behavoral therapy that Prudie was suggesting would do exactly what I do and challenge her way of thinking and suggest she modify her behavior. The kind of drugs she would need IF she had a chemical inbalance would have to be found elsewhere anyway.

onlymaryjane:

You say mental illness. I say she feels rightfully guilty that she cost her family thousands of dollars and made a poor choice not to use her education to get a good job,

Do you believe that mental illnesses don't exist? Some of what she wrote in that letter was pretty extreme. As for the education, well sometimes that happens. Do you have a degree in engineering? I mean, if we're going to say that the worth of a degree is strictly based on earning potential, then spending money on a degree like english, that doesn't immediately result in a high paying job is "wasting family money". So unless you got a degree in engineering or some other highly technicial field, you've wasted your family's money.

onlymaryjane:

I think she has some much needed "snapping out of it" rather than MORE costs to the family with therapy when she's refusing to modify her behavior.

*IF* she is mentally ill (and she sounds like she has a problem) she's not simply going to get better without some help, especially if the problem is related to her hormones. You can't will your body to go back to the proper chemical state. Would you tell a cancer patient that she shouldn't seek expensive treatment and should just get better?

onlymaryjane:

Stop spending hours making work for yourself. Your family is about to fall apart because you're losing it, but "can't cut any corners!!" It's ridiculous.

But that's exactly it, if she's really "losing it" she can't just stop. Do you think that the people who wash their hands over and over again until they bleed want to do that?

I say this as a person who doesn't have children and has never had any mental illenesses. No one in my immediate family has ever had a mental illness either. So I don't have a personal stake in this. But you seem to feel that mental illnesses are fictional. (And with Yates bringing the PPD to light, that seems especially pig-headed to me.)