Is a nationalist pretending to be a Christian.

If the so called Christian believes numerous things that are clearly anti-Christian............can he be a spokesperson for Christianity?

Our troika of fascists........Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco....all USED Christianity............but would anyone observing them cite them as true Christians.

Even the great Bolshevik Stalin used the Russian Orthodox Church when he was desperate........only to continue persecuting it later on.

I would say these people are not Christians.....but opportunists and perverters.

Yet they, themselves, would consider themselves Christian.

Your definitions are singular and excedingly narrow. But that seems to be your point.

I'm sorry. Your personal defintions do not hold sway in the real world.

Nationalism is an ideology, not a religion. It, and religion, are not mutually exclusive.

now if you decided to modify with the words, 'good' 'devout' 'practicing' before Christian. That's coming half way. Of if you added the 'in my opinion'. that would be another way.

In all, you are making a personal judgement and calling it a universal fiat.

Keep in mind, folks, that "good, REAL Christian" el cid...

is (as one can see from his Ballot Box postings) a rabid nativist and bigot who hates Latinos and blacks, and dreams of some "Turner Diaries" "counter-revolution" (led by him and others good, decent, honest WHITE guys) in the future overthrowing the "multi-cultural Bolshevik Revolution" he sees coming (with or without an Obama victory, btw...he's THAT nuts!)

So picture Randy Weaver when you hear his comments.

My point is really that........mixing nationalism, communism or any extreme political agenda with religion is a very dangerous thing.

Using religion as a banner to unite people in a political cause is explosive.......as history has shown.

The great book, Clash of the Civilizations, makes the point that Religion is the fundamental rallying point in all cultures at certain times in history.

But Huntington does not then go on to say that religion should abolished.

Islam is clearly the banner of Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Abu Sayyef, Iran's Cult of the Mahdi....and of course......Al Qaeda.

But atheists never make the case that Islam is evil....or should be abolished.........like they do for Christianity.

Reptilicus:

Keep in mind, folks, that "good, REAL Christian" el cid...

is (as one can see from his Ballot Box postings) a rabid nativist and bigot who hates Latinos and blacks, and dreams of some "Turner Diaries" "counter-revolution" (led by him and others good, decent, honest WHITE guys) in the future overthrowing the "multi-cultural Bolshevik Revolution" he sees coming (with or without an Obama victory, btw...he's THAT nuts!)

So picture Randy Weaver when you hear his comments.

Take your LSD induced ravings.....back to Ballot Box.

The adults are trying to have a discussion.

Our troika of fascists........Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco....all USED Christianity............but would anyone observing them cite them as true Christians.

What difference does it make? A better question: What Christian has not used Christianity? Or another: How would we decide who was the true Christian? We cannot use the Bible. Christians are always telling us non-believers that we cannot understand the Bible until we get the spirit. So ultimately it comes down to personal revelation, the most subjective measure of "truth." IOW, by Christianity's own admission there is no objective measure of true Christianity.

Well.....I would say mass murder on a gigantic scale is a good starting disqualifier.

Anyone proposing concentration camps should be suspect.

Hell... One can make that 'not a true Christian(tm)' comment about a number of leaders throughout the ages. It doesn't mean that they didn't consider themselves Christian, or that other people considered them Christian.

On THAT block I place..... Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia... Lucretia's father)

You're just making judgements. Okay, by their actions they don't look like Christians. So they were bad christians. very bad ones <shrug>

Franco?? Nah. Mull this over (wiki, once again - it's the quickest source available, but again, this is all cited to sources):

On the other hand, Catholicism in its most conservative variant was made official Religion of the Spanish State. Civil servants had to be Catholic, and even for some official jobs a "good behaviour" statement by the priest was needed. Civil marriages which had taken place under Republican Spain were declared null and void and had to be reconfirmed by the Catholic Church of Spain. Civil marriages were only possible after the couple made a public renounce to the Catholic Church. Divorce was forbidden, and also contraceptives and abortion

I've heard the arguments about Hitler and Mussolini before; the Hitler one is pretty good, the Mussolini one is weaker but not insubstantial - but you're just about the only person I've ever heard argue that Franco was not a devout Catholic (and an early Opus Dei supporter, AFAIR), as devoted to defending the values of the Spanish RCC as he was about anything else.

Care to proffer some evidence to support your point vis a vis Franco?

But atheists never make the case that Islam is evil....or should be abolished.........like they do for Christianity.

I have no religion yet I've never made the case any religion should be abolished. I have made the case that religions often permit people to believe all sorts of crazy, destructive things. But this is no different from psychoanalysis, marxism, or existentionalism. I admit I argue with Christians far more than Muslims but that's only because Islam is not a force in American politics.

I suppose the Cathars were not murdered by Christians. I suppose all the European religious wars were not fought by Christians. I suppose Dresden was not bombed by Christians. I suppose the American Indians were not slaughtered by Christians. The fact is, Christians admit to being sinners. They admit they cannot help from being so, yet they are "forgiven" anyway. This alone excuses all sorts of bad behavior.

el cid:

But atheists never make the case that Islam is evil....or should be abolished.........like they do for Christianity.

I would never argue that Christianity should be abolished. Indeed, by the admission of some of the more vocal Christians on FB Fray, their Christianity is the only thing that keeps them from wholesale rape and murder.

So by all means, Christianity all around, for them that need it.

el cid:

Well.....I would say mass murder on a gigantic scale is a good starting disqualifier.

Anyone proposing concentration camps should be suspect.

Based on what? The source material is chock full of mass murder on a gigantic scale being directed by God and done directly by God.

Joshua 6:20-21

Judges 20:48

Judges 18:27-29

Jeremiah 50:21-22

Exodus 32:26-29

Deuteronomy 13:13-19

For starters