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Can we elect Hillary?
by Med_Intern2008
+1/-1 Reply

call it pre-convention cold feet or whatever, but it would be nice if we could nominate Hillary instead of Obama at the convention. You know, in recent events, such as the Saddleback Church debate Obama was an embarressment. A month ago I was so proud of him now he's turned into a waffling ego maniac. Take away his script and teleprompter and Obama sounds like he belongs in elementary school. I so want Hillary at this point

Do others feel this way? What do we need to do at this point to replace him with Hillary? Help!!!

Re: Can we elect Hillary?
by benjaminkwhiskey

Thinking like that will only help John McCain. If you want to do what you can to support McCain, that is fine, but there is no way Hillary is going to get the nomination, and any convention manuvering only helps the Repulicans.

Also, if Hillary did somehow get the nomination, she would lose in the general election. Black voter turnout would be very low if the superdelegates took the nomination away from a black man, and she would have trouble winning any swing states with a large black population.

Re: Can we elect Hillary?
by DoctorJ

Well, before you go back in time to make more people vote for her, dial the clock back to Nov 2000 and do the same for a few 1000 people in Florida to vote Gore instead of Nader.

And while you're at it, why not alert the airline desk workers on the morning of 9/11, evacuate the tsunami hit areas of Indonesia and China's earthquake. Oh, and I would say get all Iraqi's to flee but they wouldn't have needed to w/President Gore and no 9/11...

In other words, short of an assassination of Obama there is no way for Hillary to be nominated and she won't risk running as a 3rd party. Obama is still a better candidate and a better chance to win and win big. Clinton would lose in my opinion, because some people won't vote for a black man, but even more won't vote for a woman, especially if that woman is Hillary. That hasn't changed. Plus one of the biggest advantages we have against McCain is the Nixon-kennedy factor. Obama looks so much younger, more vibrant than McCain, Hillary not so much. Plus we lose any advantage we had over the Iraq votes and Obama is more believable in selling health care, as Hillarycare was a collosal flop.

Breathe, pour yourself a nice glass of wine and imagine a world w/o W and with Obama in the White House. Nice right? Don't ever bring this up again or it won't happen...

Re: Can we elect Hillary?
by tubbs

Can we elect Hillary?

No, because Obama beat her in the Democratic Primary.

Re: Can we elect Hillary? We wish so
by The Real Slim K
Well I like the part about the good glass of wine, Dr. J., but I'm afraid the fact that you bring up 2000 (and even admit what a big difference Gore would have made vs. W as pres.) only serves to underscore the message to some: stand up for who you believe, don't give up. Are you really a Dr.? or just a basketball fan? I ask, because if the former, surely you know it's unfair to blame Hillary for her rabid enemies (who in lock-step conspired to defeat her health care plan. Kind of like blaming Dred Scott for that 3/5 of a human being decision).
Re: Can we elect Hillary?
by donnamp
Med_Intern2008:

call it pre-convention cold feet or whatever, but it would be nice if we could nominate Hillary instead of Obama at the convention. You know, in recent events, such as the Saddleback Church debate Obama was an embarressment. A month ago I was so proud of him now he's turned into a waffling ego maniac. Take away his script and teleprompter and Obama sounds like he belongs in elementary school. I so want Hillary at this point

Do others feel this way? What do we need to do at this point to replace him with Hillary? Help!!!

Get over it. Hillary lost. I really don't believe that you were ever for Obama. Just another Hillary supporter that doesn't want to admit defeat and wants to do anything to usurp the process for her candidate.

Re: Can we elect Hillary? We wish so
by DoctorJ
"stand up for who you believe in, don't give up" is exactly why we got W in the first place. Because those 1000s of Nader voters in Florida refused to face reality and vote for Gore. I'm all for standing up for who you believe in, but the election choice this fall is Obama v McCain. Period. It won't change between now and November. So believe in whoever you want to believe in, but if you believe that Hillary is the best candidate you REALLY need to think hard before you vote for someone who is diametrically opposed to everything she stands for (McCain) vs someone who agrees w/her 99% of the time and the 1% of the time, HE was right (Iraq)... ;)
Re: Can we elect Hillary? We wish so
by The Real Slim K
I agree with most of what you say, actually. Hillary is the best candidate, but under these circumstances, I will vote for Obama. But that's just me.
Re: Can we elect Hillary? We wish so
by donnamp

How can Hillary be the best candidate when she is no longer a candidate? The people have made their choice and it wasn't her.

Re: Can we elect Hillary? We wish so
by tubbs

Anyone under the delusion that Hillary was the best candidate should read the Atlantic story detailing her campaign's demise:

<link>

September 2008 Atlantic Monthly

Hillary Clinton’s campaign was undone by a clash of personalities more toxic than anyone imagined. E-mails and memos—published here for the first time—reveal the backstabbing and conflicting strategies that produced an epic meltdown.

by Joshua Green

The Front-Runner’s Fall

For all that has been written and said about Hillary Clinton’s epic collapse in the Democratic primaries, one issue still nags. Everybody knows what happened. But we still don’t have a clear picture of how it happened, or why.

The after-battle assessments in the major newspapers and newsweeklies generally agreed on the big picture: the campaign was not prepared for a lengthy fight; it had an insufficient delegate operation; it squandered vast sums of money; and the candidate herself evinced a paralyzing schizophrenia—one day a shots-’n’-beers brawler, the next a Hallmark Channel mom. Through it all, her staff feuded and bickered, while her husband distracted. But as a journalistic exercise, the “campaign obit” is inherently flawed, reflecting the viewpoints of those closest to the press rather than empirical truth.

How did things look on the inside, as they unraveled?

To find out, I approached a number of current and former Clinton staffers and outside consultants and asked them to share memos, e-mails, meeting minutes, diaries—anything that would offer a contemporaneous account. The result demonstrates that paranoid dysfunction breeds the impulse to hoard. Everything from major strategic plans to bitchy staff e-mail feuds was handed over. (See for yourself: much of it is posted online at www.theatlantic.com/clinton.)

Two things struck me right away. The first was that, outward appearances notwithstanding, the campaign prepared a clear strategy and did considerable planning. It sweated the large themes (Clinton’s late-in-the-game emergence as a blue-collar champion had been the idea all along) and the small details (campaign staffers in Portland, Oregon, kept tabs on Monica Lewinsky, who lived there, to avoid any surprise encounters). The second was the thought: Wow, it was even worse than I’d imagined! The anger and toxic obsessions overwhelmed even the most reserved Beltway wise men. Surprisingly, Clinton herself, when pressed, was her own shrewdest strategist, a role that had never been her strong suit in the White House. But her advisers couldn’t execute strategy; they routinely attacked and undermined each other, and Clinton never forced a resolution. Major decisions would be put off for weeks until suddenly she would erupt, driving her staff to panic and misfire.

Above all, this irony emerges: Clinton ran on the basis of managerial competence—on her capacity, as she liked to put it, to “do the job from Day One.” In fact, she never behaved like a chief executive, and her own staff proved to be her Achilles’ heel. What is clear from the internal documents is that Clinton’s loss derived not from any specific decision she made but rather from the preponderance of the many she did not make. Her hesitancy and habit of avoiding hard choices exacted a price that eventually sank her chances at the presidency. What follows is the inside account of how the campaign for the seemingly unstoppable Democratic nominee came into being, and then came apart.

Re: Can we elect Hillary? We wish so
by itspattee
donnamp:

How can Hillary be the best candidate when she is no longer a candidate? The people have made their choice and it wasn't her.

Hillary thought ahe was the best and that McCain was second only to her...

She reminded people that she and McCain had a lifetime of experience while Obama had a "speech."

She even said that she and McCain had passed the "CIC test."

She did not run a campaign that was respectful of Obama or his supporters. She will not run again because in 8 yrs she will be almost as old as McCain and Bill will have taken even more money from dictators and Saudi princes and will have even more reason not to want his records opened to scrutiny.

Re: Can we elect Hillary? We wish so
by The Real Slim K
Tubbs you can round up all the Clinton-hating blogs you want and it won't impress me. She did NOT run a terrible campaign, as a registered and proud democrat, I notice that she won most of the votes from my registered party members; she won California, New York, Texas (other than the stupid and unconstitutional rule that let them vote twice), Ohio, FLA and MI (other than the stupid and unconstitutional rules that said 'tell the Repubs they can have these states if they won't vote for Obama); and of course, don't forget disproportionate district voting--or the sophistic and ridiculous manner in which some NPR/Whole Foods types decided that the dems should choose their candidate even though this was NOT I repeat NOT the way adults vote in November. So, the empty suit won. Yeah, Empty Suit. I'm stuck with him. But gosh, reading these things again--just reminds me how very much I hate the Obama fans/cult. Hate them. Now, again, I speak only for myself, my hatred won't make me vote for McCain. But others? Why don't you idiots grow up before we have another McGovern on our hands (in the national election)??
Re: Can we elect Hillary? We wish so
by tubbs

Uh, FYI, Slim K, the Atlantic isn't a Clinton hating Blog:

The Atlantic (also known as The Atlantic Monthly) is an American magazine founded in Boston in 1857. Originally created as a literary and cultural commentary magazine, its current format is of a general editorial magazine. Written with content focusing on "foreign affairs, politics, and the economy [as well as] cultural trends", it is primarily aimed at a target audience of "thought leaders".[1][2]

Obama BEAT Hillary because he ran a better campaign. Period. Read the Atlantic piece and the internal emails from the Clinton campaign.

As for your hate towards Obama and his supporters. I could care less. Really. You're a vote. One vote. Probably in a state that is either distinctly red or blue. Either way you're a drop in the ocean.

Re: Can we elect Hillary? We wish so
by A Dude

You may be right that the rules you cite above are stupid (you are absolutely wrong that they are unconstitutional), but even if they are, those rules existed, the Hillary campaign knew about them, but they failed to account for them. That is the sign of a bad campaign.

It reminds me of the grousing the Clintons made about caucus states. As in, well, Obama may have more delegates, but it's all because of those crazy caucus states. Their opinion on the efficacy of a caucus is irrelevant. They knew all those states had caucuses before the election, they failed to develop a strategy to win them.

A theme of the Clinton campaign for the better part of the nomination was to change the rules in the middle of the game. That is the theme of a loser. She lost because she ran a bad campaign.

Re: Can we elect Hillary? We wish so
by The Real Slim K

thanks dude (that Jeff Bridges movie WAS good I admit), for reminding me about those other 2 things: the caucuses DO supress democratic participation--un-bleeping deniable. I say 'keep Iowa' history and all, toss the rest, no matter how good they were for Obama fans to score late at night while others with familys or with a job to go to the next morning were home or in bed sleeping. The other thing, of course, is that mindless 'rules, rules, rules' repetition. I never got that one, I really didn't because, well, I like the Declaration of Independence. A very patriotic document. Have you read it lately? You should. google it. Put it on your wall. A bad rule should not be followed. How un-American is that? Voting twice (or not letting large states vote) is not constitional. Sorry, as Simon Cowell would say. 'But Hillary should have been aware of these stupid rules and adjusted accordingly' (you know, like saying, 'oh what the heck, I guess we don't need public financing of campaigns after all; or 'okay, okay, 14 months of adjustable not in stone time-table it is' why pull the soldiers out all willy-nilly? etc.). A stupid rule should not be "adjusted to" it should be thrown into the Boston Harbor with the tea.

Hillary did not run a bad campaign. But our democratic party WAS high-jacked by Clinton-haters disguising themselves as bad-dems.

Tubbs: ef the Atlantic Monthly. But yes, I'm in one of the bluest states imaginable, and I will vote for the empty suit anyway--I've already said that stupid Clinton-haters wouldn't make me vote for McCain. You're right that I'm only one person though.

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