If gas sales go down by a significant amount, isn't that also a measure of the amount of driving being done? It's not perfect - people could be using more fuel-efficient vehicles. But, still, it's pretty good.

I was thinking the same thing. They could take that number, coupled with the average fuel efficiency of cars on the street nowadays. Still imperfect(complicated by gas hoarding, trucks, etc), but probably better than the method they use now.

DeaH:

If gas sales go down by a significant amount, isn't that also a measure of the amount of driving being done? It's not perfect - people could be using more fuel-efficient vehicles. But, still, it's pretty good.

I almost agreed but then economic reality sank in. About 2/3rds of corporations pay no federal tax at all, as in zero <link> . It is not reasonable to expect that a liquid commodity like gasoline or diesel can be efficiently measured/regulated by the government. (Nice job they did during prohibition regulating alcohol even without huge pipelines and tanker trucks for transport across state lines.) So while there are very big numbers tossed around about fuel sold/consumed they are certainly very far from accurate. If still in doubt consider the monumental vaguery surrounding the 'peak oil' debate. Either they have an accurate number or they don't. (They don't.)

It would be immensely amusing though to compare the numbers for the total miles driven and the total gallons sold for both the periods when gas was cheap and now. Many fewer miles are clearly driven now but not so many fewer gallons are reported sold now is the likely outcome assuming that the reported numbers have always been chronically low to avoid paying taxes. They could only go so much lower.

Ironically the only explanation left then is that vehicles suddenly have been getting many fewer MPG. The liberals will blame the conservatives who will blame them back again for the loss of MPG of the average American vehicle during the past year. (Some quacks will blame it all on Ethanol and 'watered down' gas so clouding the issue.)

Meanwhile the experts, the oil companies, will insist that offshore drilling is the only way to increase the loss in MPG of the average American vehicle to where it had been before the price of gas went up. To save face both the liberals and the conservatives will agree and offshore drilling will be adopted. Everyone wins.

I was kind of lost in that haze of anti-government rhetoric so forgive me if I failed to get the gist of your post.

However, while you may believe inaccurate gas sales figures are the norm, I can assure you that very accurate gas tax figures are readily available to the Federal Highway Administration. Since we know what the gas tax is, it would be simple math to deduce the amount of fuel purchased.

Eigenvector:

I was kind of lost in that haze of anti-government rhetoric so forgive me if I failed to get the gist of your post.

However, while you may believe inaccurate gas sales figures are the norm, I can assure you that very accurate gas tax figures are readily available to the Federal Highway Administration. Since we know what the gas tax is, it would be simple math to deduce the amount of fuel purchased.

I apologize if I came off as suggesting that the raw measurement numbers are inaccurate, I am certain that the record keeping is meticulous. We have atomic clocks and are clearly sticklers for accurate measurements. What I am saying is that how those measurements are later reported undoubtedly is incorrect which is a secondary step taken after the accurate measurements were made.

There are necessary reasons for accurate record keeping which are both technical and economic. Even more so there is a propensity for corporations to misrepresent the facts to the government and for the government to misrepresent the facts to the public. By the time that I see a number it is like some Silly Putty that has been run through a Play Doh Factory before being reviewed by a pre-schooler for its accuracy.

The only high jacking going on here is of our tax dollars which even you yourself bemoaned in a closely related thread which addressed highway funding. It is very hard to hide a collapsed bridge in a city. It is very easy to keep two sets of books on oil supplies/tax revenues which no one ever sees outside of the boardroom.

Of course the nonsense about 'suddenly decreasing MPG' was a poke at how the numbers just do not add up under closer scrutiny. The conclusion about approving off shore drilling and why it will happen, was correct.

What about people putting gas in things that aren't automobiles though? Boats, ATVs, lawn mowers, that sort of stuff... guessing maybe it's not a large enough percentage of gas sold to make a difference in the results, is that it?

wmccomninel:

I almost agreed but then economic reality sank in. About 2/3rds of corporations pay no federal tax at all, as in zero <link> .

Wincom,

Just to clear things up a bit ( I hope) there are a lot of small business owners like me whose *corporation* pays no tax each year, because all profit at the end of the year is given out to the employees, and THAT income is taxes, believe me. So the income made is still taxed, but you'd see it as PERSONAL income tax, and not corporate income tax.

BTW, the reason you have to null out the books each year is that if you DON'T, you get taxed on the same income twice, once for the corporate income, then later when you take it out as personal income. Not many people want to pay income taxes twice on the same money.

But it's definitely not that taxes aren't paid.

Bondsman:

...Just to clear things up a bit ( I hope) there are a lot of small business owners like me whose *corporation* pays no tax each year, because all profit at the end of the year is given out to the employees, and THAT income is taxes, believe me. So the income made is still taxed, but you'd see it as PERSONAL income tax, and not corporate income tax.

BTW, the reason you have to null out the books each year is that if you DON'T, you get taxed on the same income twice, once for the corporate income, then later when you take it out as personal income. Not many people want to pay income taxes twice on the same money.

But it's definitely not that taxes aren't paid.

I think you are right. I was surprised to read about that phenomenon when a recent article about the Presidential candidate's tax policies pointed it out saying since much corporate tax was paid as income tax they differed little in their plans.

Now back to determining how much gas is actually sold. Your observation does not affect the situation which I have described where the numbers for the amount of gas sold is probably 'lowballed' by the gas companies when reporting to government agencies to lower their tax burden on gas sold.

If I fill my gas tank and pay the gas company the taxes for 15 gallons but the gas company reports that I only bought 14 gallons then they pocket the tax on the 'missing gallon' when they later pay gas taxes to the government. It is called skimming or something like that.

That is not linked to how 2/3 of corporations pay no federal taxes, a subject that I mentioned only because it is in the news now and reflects how ignorant we generally are of how greedy corporations are. I have always heard the talking heads on TV spewing about how American corporations pay some of the highest taxes in the world except for Sweden and Finland and a few other socialist-lands.