to my off-topic post last week about my son and his former girlfriend. Everyone that is with the possible exception of August Alley. My son is not a miscreant and I have no plans to strangle anybody. That was not meant literally. I was just upset and blowing off steam. Maybe I should have said "I could bite nails in two" or something like that. (Also no plans to do that.)

My son is 25. I am not sure, but I believe the girl is 24 or 25. My son is not the mama's boy type at all. He also keeps a lot to himself so I got a lot of this story in bits and pieces-some from his brother. He does not have any priors unless you count minor traffic incidents like speeding. He also doesn't drink,smoke or do drugs.

I have also not been harrassing the girl as was suggested. I talked to her one time to try to get her side. I was not at all hateful and I apologized for him. It is as my son said. There was no one else around and he burned some items out of her unlocked car. I think she will have to prove the value of her items. All I have heard was cd's and some sentimental stuff like some drawings of hers. My son stayed until the fire was out. Then he stupidly left her a note so there's no denying he did it and he said he wasn't planning to.

No, I don't think it is no big deal or something he should have done. The fire part scared me to death. I asked him what in hell he was thinking? I still don't think it should be deemed a felony charge though. They may have had some phone argument or something prior, but he hurt no one. Yes he destroyed property worth about $300, she claims. Originally, I had been told $600. Maybe she got an estimate, I don't know.

My son was trying to reach her by phone but only got voice mail. Later on, either she called him or he called her. She said she wasn't afraid of him and knew he wouldn't hurt her. The police had insisted on her taking out the restraining order. My son wanted to try to make arrangements to pay her back, but she didn't want to.

Behind his back I was going to try to give her the money. I called but was told she didn't work there anymore. I found that out to be a lie, but I figured that meant she was not planning to talk to me so I didn't call again.

I did call the courthouse and was told it would be too late to settle out of court now. I do believe it could have earlier. The girl can speak to the DA on his behalf, though. I know that for a fact.

I also called the police department for advice. They said he should turn himself in and that he may spend a couple days jail time, but I could go to the magistrate to try to get him off on his own recognizance before a court date. I had one of the police officers numbers that had come to the house and I gave it to my son. Still another detective came out and talked to him and a court date was set.

I thought it was for all of it, but it was only the restraining order. Well they had told me he would be in civil court. I didn't think a felony b & e charge sounded like a civil matter. The felony part is what really sent a chill through me. That can follow him all his life.

It just seems like too stiff of a charge for what he did. I was thinking of unlawful entry since the car wasn't locked and destroying property. I really hope it can be dropped down to a misdemeanor charge. I don't think a domestic dispute could really be charged since there is no restraining order now and the girl was nowhere around when my son did this foolishness.

We do have a lawyer for him now. He talked to him yesterday. He is going to go with him to turn my son in. He told him to wait until Monday-I guess thinking he might stay in jail over the weekend. I don't know. I hope he knows what he is doing.

The cops that came by again today said the longer he waits, the more it will look like a flight risk. I told them about the lawyer and asked did they want his name. They didn't.

I don't think I will be held for harboring a "fugitive" because I'm not. He is hardly ever here. I know he is staying with a friend or friends. I have my ideas but don't know who for sure. I don't even really know some of his friends and the two or three I think he is most likely to be with have all moved since I knew their addresses. The police have yet to ask me for any names or phone numbers. I gave them his cell phone number and I let them come in and search even though there is no search warrant. I am getting sick of these almost daily police visits. I just didn't answer one day. He wasn't here.

The reason the girl is really irritating me now is she didn't want to settle out of court when there might have been a chance-no let's make a big fat mess instead. And sorry I do feel like I am being harrassed by the police. The other thing is how this girl keeps showing up where she knows my son will be.

My sons are in a band and they had a show last night. Sure enough she was there. My niece was too. My son didn't talk to the girl but apparently she was giving him the eye and my niece. Made me wonder if she was trying to figure out if that was his new gf. I surely hope they don't get back together. Sounds like a disaster.

Incog, if he had done something really awful like killed someone in cold blood or molested a child as much as I would be shocked of that, yes I would turn him in. I just don't think this fits in that sort of category and sorry it does tick me off that the girl seems to be on a vendetta but then talks sweet to him on the phone and shows up where she thinks he might be.

Yes, he does have a temper sometimes and this must have been a volatile relationship. I wish he would have just tore up something she gave him or something and threw it in the trash in front of her or something like that instead. Hindsight.

Thanks for all the helpful comments and suggestions. And the kind comments. Leghorn sounds like you have a little vandalism in your background, too. Ha! Ha!

And I have to agree with you Taurin (might of spelled it wrong, if she had done this to him, it probably wouldn't be as big a deal. That's what scared me more because he is male.Then again, my son probably wouldn't have pressed charges. Not sure he wouldn't retaliate, but not with violence against her.

I hope I answered all of anyone's questions or cleared some things up. I guess I did sound a little hysterical in that first post. Now I feel a little better. Just dreading Monday.

I know this is way too longand probably full of typo's. Sorry.

I hope everything works out for the best. It's hard to see our kids go through stuff like this.

"Enforcement" paid better.

Sounds horrible and I hope things to out for the best. I also hope your son sees someone for anger management, at least once (though I don't know his history). The taking of items out of the car and burning it sounds like something I would expect a teenager to do, not someone in his mid-20's. As for the girl, I would start recording all the phone calls and taking notes if possible, her contacting your son could possible hurt her case. Neither should have contact, togeather they sound explosive.

Again, best of luck.

I'm glad things are starting to work out. I've got to say though, your attitude really still seems to be off.

Sandstormz60:

The reason the girl is really irritating me now is she didn't want to settle out of court when there might have been a chance-no let's make a big fat mess instead.

She didn't make a big fat mess. Your son made a big fat mess, she reacted to that. If your son hadn't burned her stuff, she would be unable to make any trouble for her at all. You are blaming the victim here. Let me tell you, if somebody had broke into my car and burned my stuff, I'd feel violated. Money wouldn't fix that.

Sandstormz60:

I also called the police department for advice. They said he should turn himself in

We do have a lawyer for him now. He talked to him yesterday. He is going to go with him to turn my son in. He told him to wait until Monday-I guess thinking he might stay in jail over the weekend. I don't know. I hope he knows what he is doing.

The cops that came by again today said the longer he waits, the more it will look like a flight risk. I told them about the lawyer and asked did they want his name. They didn't.

He is hardly ever here. I know he is staying with a friend or friends. I have my ideas but don't know who for sure.

I am getting sick of these almost daily police visits. I just didn't answer one day.

I do feel like I am being harrassed by the police.

My sons are in a band and they had a show last night.

Ok, so you don't technically know where your son is every minute of every day. But you knew when he was at the lawyers, you knew when he was performing with his band. You have some good leads on where he is sleeping. Yet you haven't shared any of this with the police. You are lying by omission. Yet they are 'harassing' you when they attempt to uncover your lies?

You seem very concerned with painting both yourself and your son as victims. Yet you are both breaking the laws. Do you think that you are really being a good role model for your son here? People make mistakes. If you love them, you show them how to improve. Not how to avoid responsibility.

Again, he needs to document dates, times, and places where she turns up knowing he'll be there. It could constitute some kind of harassment, since she does have the restraining order. And it would probably be better to let someone else take a picture (preferably on a digital, so there's a date & time) of her. That way he can prove his claims, but not look like he's stalking her in return.

Sometimes you just wish you could slap some sense into your kids. But most are going to do what they would do anyway. They often end up slapping themselves, like he probably is doing. I hope it all works out.

Sandstormz. I hope that this all works out for the best. I can only repeat the advice to get a good criminal lawyer and listen to them.

Just one more thing. It's probably best until you get this matter solved one way or another, that you don't post anymore info on it.

BTW: A restraining order means that he can't come near her; it puts no limitations on her, legally. Sure, it looks bad in some sense, but it's not illegal for her just to show up in public places where he might be. He's the one who committed the crime; the law does not require her to alter her behavior. It also has nothing to do with the criminal case, since it's happening afterwards. The mere fact of her showing up at a bar is not harassment; she would have to make some kind of threat or engage in other unlawful behavior. Document it, sure, but keep in mind that complaining about it may backfire. Some judges don't take kindly to efforts to smear the victim. If it really becomes harassment, your son can get a restraining order against her.

As for whether the felony charge is deserved; keep in mind that breaking into a car and burning personal items is very serious behavior, especially in a domestic context. For one, the fire could have spread and cause serious damage to others. Even if it was a small fire, a spark could jump away and ignite something nearby. For two, it's extremely frightening and threatening behavior, and the prosecutor will have to take it seriously. Your son's assurances that it won't happen again aside, this kind of behavior does often escalate into actual violence, and a prosecutor would be negligent who did not at least consider that fact. (As a side note, the domestic violence nature of the crime does not depend on whether she was present or whether there is a restraining order; the law often defines it simply by the nature of the relationship between the victim and the perpetrator.)

Also, as a former dv prosecutor, I can tell you that the victim does not "press charges." The state does. The victim cannot "drop the case." At most, she can tell the prosecutor that she doesn't want the case to go forward, but that is not outcome-determinative. The prosecutor may well decide that the state nonetheless has an interest in enforcing the law because of the nature of the behavior or to ensure that your son is ordered to undergo anger management counseling as part of the sentencing. The prosecutor is also no doubt used to getting calls from domestic violence victims who want the charges dropped. The prosecutor, if his or her experience is anything like mine, it also used to seeing the defendant commit another crime against the victim, often a more serious one, and might have learned to take such requests with a big grain of salt. The office might also have certain enforcement priorities or plea guidelines that limit the prosecutor's options. A restraining order is a civil matter completely separate from the criminal case.

This is all to say that, regardless of the specifics of your son's case, there are more factors at work here than what the victim wants. Also, while you may not have a legal obligation to help the police find your son, you do have a legal obligation not to lie to them in any way, and it is in your son's best interests to turn himself in quickly. It is also in your son's best interests for you to stay out of the process. He is an adult, and needs to deal with the consequences of his actions. Your involvement could actually be counterproductive--making it look like he is unable to be responsible, or talking to the victim about the case may appear to be intimidation or harassment. (Not to mention that it will no doubt irritate the prosecutor and possibly the judge.) Your best bet is to help him in whatever way you can to comply with all court orders and show up for all court dates, to keep on his best behavior during this process, and to be supportive without looking at all like you condone his behavior.

Sandstormz60:

I think she will have to prove the value of her items.

I still don't think it should be deemed a felony charge though.

I did call the courthouse and was told it would be too late to settle out of court now. I do believe it could have earlier.

The girl can speak to the DA on his behalf, though. I know that for a fact.

I didn't think a felony b & e charge sounded like a civil matter.

It just seems like too stiff of a charge for what he did. I was thinking of unlawful entry since the car wasn't locked and destroying property.

I don't think a domestic dispute could really be charged since there is no restraining order now and the girl was nowhere around when my son did this foolishness.

I don't think I will be held for harboring a "fugitive" because I'm not. He is hardly ever here. I know he is staying with a friend or friends.

You might want to discard all of your thoughts on the matter, because they're crap.

If your son and this girl were in a relationship, it's domestic abuse. Has nothing to do with whether or not a restraining order was in place at the time.

The value of the items have little to do with the fact that your son set fire to them, which is probably now considered a terrorist act in addition to breaking and entering and destruction of property, arson, etc. Not simply "foolishness".

Do you have any concept of how charges are pressed? A person can press charges against another person, or, if the crime is severe enough, the DA can press charges against a person whether the victim wants them to or not. The law, in its wisdom, has determined that the average layman does not have the right to allow a dangerous criminal to roam the streets just because they don't want the trouble of pressing charges. Then, because it's a felony, the DA takes it over. The police were mandated to report this crime to the DA. This idea you have that The Girl is behind these charges and could do anything about it but be a witness for the prosecution at this point is completely wrong. In fact, if she wanted those charges dropped, there's probably not a damn thing she can do about it. It's not her call to make. The only thing she can do is testify her feelings about not being afraid of your son, other than that, she has no more choice in this matter than your son does.

Just because you don't think these charges should be as severe as they are doesn't absolve you of the fact that you do, in fact, know where your son is and you are hiding that fact from the police. And we know you are aware of where your son is because you are aware that The Girl keeps showing up where he is. That's a criminal offense you are guilty of, no matter what you "think". Also, if your other son and your niece are aware he is wanted by the police they are subject to prosecution, also. These posts of yours are evidence of that and subject to subpoena so you might keep that in mind.

Her employers are protecting her from your calls, not "lying" to you. The police are looking for a felony fugitive, not "harrassing" you. And the police aren't being "harder" on him because he's a male.

These opinions you have formulated of how this case should be viewed and prosecuted have no real world value and will make the situation more difficult for your son to deal with. You really don't know what you're talking about and I'm afraid your son will listen to you. Your actions are doing him more harm than good.

Oh, and suggest to your adult son that his attorney seek a mutual restraining order against the girl. And for your son's sake, please remember that, even if you are paying for this attorney yourself, it is your son's attorney and not yours and you'd be doing your son a favor if you keep your "thoughts" to yourself about his case and let his attorney do his job, which is protecting his client.

Think I'm being hard on you? I'm trying to save you both a lot of grief by nipping in the bud this mindset you have. You aren't even worrying about the things you should and all the things you shouldn't. You are ten steps behind in terms of where this case is really at. I'm also trying to save you some money because I'll bet you spend a significant portion of your retainer bending his attorney's ear at $200 per hour as to your "thoughts" about who, what, when, where and how you think this case should go. Been there, done that, seen way too many people do more jail time than necessary because their loving family effed it up for them.

It's true, a felony will follow him around and that's why your son should do everything possible to get the charge reduced. As you say, he has no priors and it is disgusting the way that a charge like this can damage an otherwise decent person's life. He made a mistake - a stupid and impulsive, but in the final analysis, quite trivial. He made a big mistake in writing her a note of admission but if you can get evidence that she is deliberately turning up in his vicinity, this would effectively discredit the idea that she is fearing for her safety.

Make the police get a warrant if they feel like harrassing you again. Good luck. 

.......what mermaid said. (as usual, you are my hero mermaid) and get him a lawyer and don't spend the weekend "playing" with your band when you're wanted for a felony?

"that was really, really stupid. I am very, very sorry." In other words, throw himself at the mercy of the court.

I was in the backs of a few police cars when I was a teenager. But I was the Angry Youth. 25 is different. He better learn to control his anger because judges don't let 25 year-olds off the hook like they do 15 year-olds.

I thought the same thing, quietwife! LOL! I like you, too.

She's not responsible for turning her son in if he's not at her place. Omitting information is not lying, especially if the cops didn't even ask for friends' names or numbers, and in light of her giving out her son's cell number. What law do you think Sands is breaking?

Any opinion on the distinction between unlawful entry and B&E?

Sandstormz60:

We do have a lawyer for him now. He talked to him yesterday. He is going to go with him to turn my son in. He told him to wait until Monday-I guess thinking he might stay in jail over the weekend. I don't know. I hope he knows what he is doing.

The cops that came by again today said the longer he waits, the more it will look like a flight risk. I told them about the lawyer and asked did they want his name. They didn't.

This should be plea bargained down to a misdemeanor and a bunch of apologies but you'll need finesse to get that done. Your son may not be able to finesse this on his own. The sooner he turns himself in the better. If he does get picked up before he turns himself in, you'll probably need a bail bondsman to get him out of jail. You may even need that if he turns himself in.

It sounds like the police department is hot about his case. They are just people like all of us, and these things happen. If he gets picked up without his attorney, he needs to be assertive but not argumentative about having his attorney present before he answers any questions.

Be sure he is cleaned up and wearing a suit when/if he goes to court. That goes a long way with judges. You may have to be Dad again if he gets fussy about cleaning up; it's important that he look cleaner and more believable than the ex-girlfriend in court.