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Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by Jomada
-2 Reply

Clarification: I am not against fathers.

I am saying that Meghan O'Rourke borrows from the Fathers Rights agenda that blames feminism for family court outcomes.

For clarification, there are also Positive Parenting groups (also called Responsible Parerting). As a public health & human rights advocate, I support positive, constructive methods, not those used by the FR groups. There is a difference! These are 2 distinct groups. Thus, I am not bashing fathers, I am trying to raise awareness of a malicious group.

This is from Dr. Michael Flood -

<link>

“Fathers’ Rights” and Violence Against Women Michael Flood

Presentation in Panel, “Myths, Misconceptions, and the Men’s Movement”, at Conference, Refocusing Women’s Experiences of Violence, Sydney, 14-16 September.

[See the end of this document for further resources.]

--------

In this talk, I’m going to focus on the ‘fathers’ rights’ movement, and their impact on violence against women.

Introduction: The fathers’ rights movement

The fathers’ rights movement is defined by the claim that fathers are deprived of their ‘rights’ and subjected to systematic discrimination as men and fathers, in a system biased towards women and dominated by feminists. Fathers’ rights groups overlap with men’s rights groups and both represent an organised backlash to feminism. Fathers’ rights and men’s rights groups can be seen as the anti-feminist wing of the men’s movement, the network of men’s groups and organisations mobilised on gender issues (Flood, 1998).

Two experiences bring most men (and women) to the fathers’ rights movement. The first is deeply painful marriage breakups and custody battles. Fathers’ rights groups are characterised by anger and blame directed at ex-partners and the ‘system’ that has deprived men or fathers of their ‘rights’, and such themes are relatively common among men who have undergone separation and divorce. The second experience is non-resident fathers’ dissatisfaction with loss of contact with their children or with regimes of child support.

The fathers’ rights movement focuses on trying to re-establish fathers’ authority and control over their children’s and ex-partners’ lives, on gaining an equality concerned with fathers’ ‘rights’ and status rather than the actual care of children, and on winding back legal and cultural changes which have lessened gender inequalities.

Fathers’ rights groups are well-organised advocates for changes in family law, and vocal opponents of feminist perspectives and achievements on interpersonal violence.

Impact of the fathers’ rights movement on violence against women

The fathers’ rights movement has had four forms of impact on violence against women.

Priviledging contact over safety

Most importantly, the fathers’ rights movement has influenced family law, with damaging consequences for women, children, and indeed men. Above all, fathers’ contact with children has been privileged, over children’s safety from violence.

An uncritical assumption that children’s contact with both parents is necessary now pervades the courts and the media. The Family Court’s new principle of the ‘right to contact’ is overriding its principle of the right to ‘safety from violence’. The Court now is more likely to make interim orders for children’s unsupervised contact in cases involving domestic violence or child abuse, to use hand-over arrangements rather than suspend contact until trial, and to make orders for joint residence where there is a high level of conflict between the separated parents and one parent strongly objects to shared residence.

The fathers’ rights movement has been unsuccessful in achieving its key goal of a rebuttable presumption of children’s joint residence after separation. However, other changes in family law and government policy over the last two years have reflected its influence. Recent reforms mean that greater numbers of parents who are the victims of violence will be subject to further violence and harassment by abusive ex-partners, while children will face a greater requirement to have contact with abusive or violent parents.

Current government policy echoes many of the key themes of the fathers’ rights movement. Both government policy and many fathers’ rights groups are guided by two central, and mistaken, assumptions: that all children see contact with both parents as in their best interests in every case, and that a violent father is better than no father at all (DVIRC, 2005, pp. 5-6). Both bodies talk of ‘conflict’ rather than violence, neglect violence as a legitimate issue for the courts and family services to address, emphasise mediation and counseling as solutions, and focus on punishing women for making false allegations or breaching contact orders.

Discrediting victims

The second impact the fathers’ rights movement has had on violence against women is in discrediting victims. Fathers’ rights groups tell two key lies.

First, fathers’ rights groups tell the lie that women routinely make false accusations of child abuse to gain advantage in family law proceedings and to arbitrarily deny their ex-partners’ access to the children.

Second, fathers’ rights groups tell the lie that women routinely make up allegations of domestic violence to gain advantage in family law cases and use protection orders to remove men from their homes or deny contact with children rather than out of any real experience or fear of violence.

I have written detailed critiques of these first two lies, and they are available both online and in the latest issue of the Australian journal Women Against Violence. I can send copies to anyone who wishes.

(Impact on perceptions of intimate violence) Men’s versus women’s violence

Related to this, the fathers’ rights movement also has had some impact on public perceptions of intimate violence. In particular, it tells the lie that domestic violence is gender-equal or gender-neutral – that men and women assault each other at equal rates and with equal effects.

While I’ve called this a lie, this is one claim for which there is some academic support.

To support the claim that domestic violence is gender-symmetrical, advocates draw almost exclusively on studies using a measurement tool called the Conflict Tactics Scale. The CTS situates domestic violence within the context of “family conflict”. It asks one partner in a relationship whether, in the last year, they or their spouse have ever committed any of a range of violent acts. CTS studies generally find gender symmetries in the use of violence in relationships. There are three problems with the use made of such studies by fathers’ rights activists.

The fathers’ rights movement’s attention to domestic violence against men is not motivated by a genuine concern for male victimisation, but by political agendas concerning family law, child custody and divorce (Kaye & Tolmie 1998, pp. 53-57). This is evident in two ways.

First, the fathers’ rights movement focuses on this violence when the great majority of the violence inflicted on men is not by female partners or ex-partners but by other men. Australian crime victimisation surveys find that less than one percent of violent incidents among men is by partners or ex-partners, compared to one-third of incidents among women (Ferrante et al. 1996, 104). Boys and men are most at risk of physical harm from other boys and men.

Second, the fathers rights’ movement seeks to erode the protections available to victims of domestic violence and to bolster the rights and freedoms of alleged perpetrators, and this harms female and male victims of domestic violence alike. I turn to this now.

Protecting perpetrators and undermining supports for victims

The fourth way in which the fathers’ rights movement has had an impact on violence against women is in its efforts to modify responses to the victims and perpetrators of violence.

The fathers’ rights movement has sought to wind back the protections afforded to the fictitious ‘victims’ of violence and to introduce legal penalties for their dishonest and malicious behavior. The Lone Fathers’ Association and other groups argue that claims of violence or abuse should be made on oath, they should require police or hospital records, and people making allegations which are not then substantiated, and those who’ve helped them, should be subject to criminal prosecution. They call for similar limitations to do with protection orders.

Fathers’ rights groups also attempt to undermine the ways in which domestic violence is treated as criminal behavior. They emphasise the need to keep the family together, call for the greater use of mediation and counseling, and reject pro-arrest policies.

Such changes would represent a profound erosion of the protections and legal redress available to the victims of violence and the ease with which they and their advocates can seek justice. This agenda betrays the fact that the concern for male victims of domestic violence often professed by fathers’ rights groups is rhetorical rather than real. While such groups purport to advocate on behalf of male victims of domestic violence, they seek to undermine the policies and services that would protect and gain justice for these same men.

Fathers’ rights groups often respond to issues of domestic and sexual violence from the point of view of the perpetrator. And they respond in the same way as actual male perpetrators: they minimise and deny the extent of this violence, blame the victim, and explain the violence as a mutual or reciprocal process (Hearn, 1996, p. 105).

This sympathy for perpetrators is evident in other ways too. Fathers’ rights advocates have expressed sympathy or justification for men who use violence against women and children in the context of family law proceedings. And, ironically, they use men’s violence to demonstrate how victimised men are by the family law system (Kaye & Tolmie, 1998a, pp. 57-58).

Members of fathers’ rights groups also act as direct advocates for alleged perpetrators of violence against women. For example, one group distributes pamphlets for ‘victims of a false AVO’, giving no attention to how to respond to ‘true’ perpetrators of violence nor to the safety of family members.

Fathers’ rights groups also attack media and community campaigns focused on men’s violence against women, call for the de-funding and abolition of what they call the “domestic violence industry”, and engage in the harassment of community sector and women’s organisations which respond to the victims of violence.

been entirely captured by the fathers’ rights movement. There is potential to foster men’s positive and non-violent involvement in parenting and families. Key resources for realising the progressive potential of contemporary fatherhood politics include the widespread imagery of the nurturing father, community intolerance for violence against women, growing policy interest in addressing divisions of labour in child care and domestic work, and men’s own investments in positive parenting.

However, thwarting the fathers’ rights movement’s backlash requires that we directly confront the movement’s agenda, disseminate critiques of its false accusations, and respond in constructive and accountable ways to the fathers (and mothers) undergoing separation and divorce (Flood, 2004, pp 274-278).

Beating the backlash

The following are some of the political strategies we can use to help beat the fathers’ rights backlash.

Discredit fathers’ rights groups. Emphasise that they;

Are interested only in reducing their financial obligations to their children;

Are interested only in extending or regaining power and authority over ex-partners and children.

Do nothing to increase men’s actual share of childcare / parenting or men’s positive involvement in parenting both before and after separation.

Collude with perpetrators of violence against women and children, protect and advocate for perpetrators, or are perpetrators.

Produce critiques of their lies and their strategies;

Which are credible and accessible.

Co-opt the new politics of fatherhood;

Support positive efforts to respond to separated fathers. (And emphasise that FR groups fix men in anger and blame, rather than helping them to heal.)

Build on men’s desires to be involved (and nonviolent) parents.

Find alternative male voices: supportive men and men’s / fathers’ networks and groups.

‘Speaking as a father…’

Tell women’s stories

Atrocity tales: Stories of abuse and inequality.

In letters, submissions, on talkback, etc.

(But beware of the ways in which these can (a) portray women only as victims, (b) homogenise and essentialise women’s (diverse) experiences of violence, and (c) undermine credibility and support.[1])

Find and nurture male allies: in government, the community sector, academic, etc.

More widely, we must continue do the work of violence prevention: to undermine the beliefs and values which support violence, challenge the power relations which sustain and are sustained by violence, and promote alternative constructions of gender and sexuality which foster non-violence and gender justice.

Contact

Dr Michael Flood
Postdoctoral Fellow
Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health and Society (Permission is given for this document to be circulated or posted online.

Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by roadkill1965

What a load of crap!

"The second impact the fathers’ rights movement has had on violence against women is in discrediting victims. Fathers’ rights groups tell two key lies.

First, fathers’ rights groups tell the lie that women routinely make false accusations of child abuse to gain advantage in family law proceedings and to arbitrarily deny their ex-partners’ access to the children.

Second, fathers’ rights groups tell the lie that women routinely make up allegations of domestic violence to gain advantage in family law cases and use protection orders to remove men from their homes or deny contact with children rather than out of any real experience or fear of violence.

To support the claim that domestic violence is gender-symmetrical, advocates draw almost exclusively on studies using a measurement tool called the Conflict Tactics Scale."

The first two "lies" are most definately true! Even judges and lawyers freely and openly admit it. When a woman is going through an acrimonious divorce, and her lawyer suggests she file a restraining order because it will virtually guarantee her victory, wouldn't you think the temptation would be too great to let pass?

The third "lie" is easily disproven, because men make up about a third of domestic violence injuries, despite generally being physically larger and stronger.

Just the standard feminist tripe that's been shoved down our throats the last three decades.

Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Gr
by Slawrence5

As I recall, in the 60's, the women's movement was treated the same way as the embryonic men's movement is being treated by the first poster. As in the 60's, this was all unsubstantiated garbage. Hysteria.

With boys rapidly filling only 1/3 of post secondary slots and from what I've heard DIRECTLY of how men get screwed in divorce, this is only the beginning.These so called "studies" cannot be taken at face value. There is too much bias and many self serving lies behind them. You can't take what women say in the heat of a divorce as gospel and at the same time deny the comments of men as lies. But that's what is happening.

Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by Jomada

"...her lawyer suggests she file a restraining order because it will virtually guarantee her victory, wouldn't you think the temptation would be too great to let pass?"

True if domestic violence claims were given weight in court. They are not. Most judges dont believe women's claims b/c of the myth that women are vindictive liars....which you are propagating. Second, even when there is evidence of abuse, it is given little weight. Batterers DO get custody. Some women have even gone to jail rather than turn their children over to a batterer.

"

"The third "lie" is easily disproven, because men make up about a third of domestic violence injuries, despite generally being physically larger and stronger"

How in the world does saying 1/3 of DV injuries are to men disprove DV is gender-symmetrical (50-50)?

FR guys say DV is equal. It is not. Research that uses CTS or community surveys find symmetry b/c their methodology. Other research, the vast majority, finds that women are more often the victim. Police records, ER stats and use of shelters confirms this research and more accurately paint the overall picture. It's not say that man aren't victims of DV...they are... it's just that these findings are highly touted by FR groups and to no constructive purpose.

"Just the standard feminist tripe that's been shoved down our throats the last three decades."

Nope, just the truth to counteract the FR ideology.

Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by oicuateonetwo
lots of words, full of shit like the op...
Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by Jomada

if only.

"lots of words' on the part of the FR groups (not the positive parenting groups) have lead to set backs for women and children, change in public perception, punishment to women, etc.

fathers rights are exactly that. for fathers.

Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by oicuateonetwo
and feminist rights are only for females,,,that crap that they are for all people are just that, crap...you want equality? register for the selective service admin...you should not have equal rights until you have equal RESPONSIBILITIES..
Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by parker

Interesting post. With citations even. I don't put any stock in anecdotes. I also really appreciate the "positive parenting" emphasis you put on it.

It's too bad some people can't have an intelligent discussion and support their arguments with evidence without resorting to simply calling the other party a liar.

Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by Pablo4200

No, that isn't the truth. Here's the truth:

Women are just as likely as men to engage in partner aggression. Men experience over one-third of DV-related injuries. (And note that violence doesn't necessarily equal injury.)Men are far less likely to report DV incidents than women. The myths about domestic violence are numerous. Many of these myths are based on DV studies that use biased survey methods.

Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by Slawrence5

parker wrote: "Interesting post. With citations even."

I hope that you don't think for a minute that this cut and paste job was really written by the poster. Most computers would crash long before it was half completed!

Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Gr
by debbyatfafny

Like the author of the posted article did? Listen, anyone can write and article. Anyone can pull statistics to support their position; 16 women were interviewed at a battered mothers conference...the conclution was that all mothers are battered.

The author looks at ER records. I am a woman and everytime I go to the doctors they ask if I am the victim of DV. Everytime my son or brother or father go they never ask. They look at court records, not applied RO but issued. 85% of them are issued to women, yet 85% of men's requests are turned down.

The CDC states that women are more violent than men but then excuse it by stating that men aren't injured as much as women. But then they state the criteria of DV has nothing to do with physical injury (unless you are a man).

The author also says even the name "fathers rights" show no compassion for children's rights. Like that makes any sense at all. Tell that to the worlds largest women's rights group. NOW - are they not compassionate towards children because of their name? Get real. Even the site Stop Family Violence - that was mentioned - doesn't help men, they routinely bash them into the ground. "were awarded the American Association of Political Consultant's prestigious Pollie Award for the best website for issue advocacy for our role in ensuring VAWA's passage."

What is VAWA? The reason why SFV's parent's group recieves millions of dollars a year - not one dime of that money went to stop family violence, it all went to advocate against men. Go to their site, I dare you to find one father friendly article. It's not there. Is it because they are against family violence or just violence against women...

What it comes down to is that there is a double standard and a great prejudice going on here. We can get nit picky about the numbers and the names of the organizations but really, does that do any good? No. The double standard not only hurts women, it hurts children and there is no two ways about it. And that's truly about the children.

There is nothing wrong with stating that you are a mother's group or a father's group. They are the same. What is wrong is the militant ones and they have them on both sides of the fence. Period.

Another thing that is fueling this argument between groups is the big money makers in them. I dare you to pull the 990's of these groups. 5 million here in fed grants, 10 million, 2 million, millions of dollars in property investments, in lobbying and so forth. You won't find that in male based groups, only in women's because of the passage of the unconstitutional bill: VAWA. Would anyone in the US stand for 5 billion a year going for the protection of just blue people? No. Would anyone in the US stand for 5 billion going for the protection of just men? No. How about just Oriental Children? Spanish children? Mexican children? No, No and No. We live in the USA and no person, based solely upon their gender or race is better than another. There is great financial reward for propaganda and who ever believes in it is nothing more than a slave to the trade.

Women kill more children than men. Fact. Women are physically injured more than men. Fact. Women are just as likely to commit DV as men. Fact. Men are less likely to report it or be supported as a victim. Fact. Anyone that wants to argue this needs to watch the "burning bed" - "roots" and "support, system down" and the news. Victimization and gender have no tie to one another.

So women's groups, keep on supporting women, but don't say you're doing it for the children. Men groups keep supporting the men, but don't say you're doing it for the children. You're doing it because it pays big bucks or you care and guess who gets the money....

This whole argument is sick.

Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by blueskies

Feminism, and Feminist's in general, were used as convenient tools to help indirectly advance interests of other factions, and vice versa, tools as much as ZPG, Planned Parenthood, helping the upper class political destruction of the New Deal, immigration (cheap labor not requiring cosly rearing and education), helping to satisfy our economic demands for the the humbling of unions and destruction of labors ability to negotiate, while supplying a increased percentage of US adults available as production workers, not counting the leverage for homosexuals, cover for neoliberals.

That's why many hate them, I think. Most had no real issue with Feminism untill it became attached to these other things, the biggest by far being Affirmitive Action, which was disguised class war (read wikipedia on subject).

The white working class has no reason to love Feminists.


The Forgotten Majority
By Betsy Leondar-Wright

In America's Forgotten Majority: Why the White Working Class Still Matters......the bulk of the Republican resurgence from the 1980s to the 2000 election was due to non-union white working-class men abandoning the Democratic party, with over 20 percent of them switching from Democrats to non-voters or third party supporters or Republicans between 1960 to 2000... debunk the myth that this represented a swing towards rightwing, conservative values. Polls show that on issues such as abortion, gay rights and the environment....more liberal in the 1980s and 1990s. Nor did working-class white men become more anti-government. They did, however, become more disappointed in government, feeling that public programs had done little for them..."not protected by a union, a bachelor's degree or affirmative action [who have] lost much ground in wages and benefits over the past quarter-century, while often being culturally and politically lumped into the 'white male' power structure with whom they share little but the color of their genitalia.".... working-class white men are the only group for which median income actually fell from 1979 to 1998.....Hope for the future and belief in the redistributive powers of government programs have made more sense to other working-class and low-income people than to white men and their families who actually saw a new generation earn less than their fathers. ... attribute the change in voting patterns to bitterness at falling behind economically. They recommend that the Democratic party take up a platform that would help working-class white men as well as other working-class people —.

When I told one long-time progressive activist I was writing a cross-class alliance building manual, this reply popped out of her mouth: "We don't have to worry about those red parts of the country anymore, now that people of color are a majority." She was referring to the color code of the 2000 Bush/Gore election map, in which the middle and south of the country tended to vote red Republican and the northern coasts and northern midwest tended to vote blue Democrat, labeled Red America and Blue America by David Brooks in "One Nation, Slightly Divisible" (Atlantic Monthly, Dec. 2001). She was also referring to a recent Census announcement that people of color are now over 30 percent of the US population, but would be over 50 percent by 2050. I had not specified white working class people in my description of the project; it's interesting how often the words "working class" evoke a white image, and usually a white male image. And her image was not only white, but middle American and conservative. Her voice was full of scorn for white working class people, and relief that she now didn't need to work with them to keep the Republicans out of office. She was imagining a voting bloc made up of people of color and white middle-class liberals like herself.

<link>

These things do not make for love, peace, and harmony

Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by ionlytellthetruth

Everytime someone tries to raise and/or defend father's rights, the opponents of fathers having access to their children will try to redirect the conversation and rub the noses both of those who support fathers having access to their children in the filth of some specific individual like Rockefeller. Or they will try to redirect focus on a "malicious group", which never seems to include feminists by the way. It's as if the rest of the fathers, the vast majority, don't even exist.

Father's rights as an issue is the quagmire of the seminal (no pun intended) civil rights issue of our time. Make no mistake about the capacity of a society to deny the existence of an institutionalized human, constitutional, or civil rights infringement. Note the virulence of the responses directed at Meghan for doing nothing more than expressing sympathy for fathers who are denied access to their children.

One of the strongest indications in any time of the violence and brutality directed at any oppressed group is the intensity of denial concerning the issue. Revisit for example Justice Brown supporting segregation in the Plessy vs Ferguson decision:

When summarizing, Justice Brown declared, "We consider the underlying fallacy of the plaintiff's argument to consist in the assumption that the enforced separation of the two races stamps the colored race with a badge of inferiority. If this be so, it is not by reason of anything found in the act, but solely because the colored race chooses to put that construction upon it."

So the logic follows: The badge of racial inferiority is all in the minds of blacks. The badge of parental inferiority is all in the minds of fathers...

Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by ionlytellthetruth

One of the strongest indications in any time of the violence and brutality directed at any oppressed group is the intensity of denial concerning the issue. Revisit for example Justice Brown supporting segregation in the Plessy vs Ferguson decision:

When summarizing, Justice Brown declared, "We consider the underlying fallacy of the plaintiff's argument to consist in the assumption that the enforced separation of the two races stamps the colored race with a badge of inferiority. If this be so, it is not by reason of anything found in the act, but solely because the colored race chooses to put that construction upon it."

So the logic follows: The badge of racial inferiority is all in the minds of blacks. The badge of parental inferiority is all in the minds of fathers...

Re: Fathers Rts Groups blame feminism, not Pos. Parenting Groups
by ionlytellthetruth

The white working class? You should hear what African-American,

native-American, Asian-American, and other minority women

have to say about NOW and American feminism. They're the

first to tell you that feminism has a "white face", that it is

administrated from the comforts of upper middle class white

America, to where the profits of neo-activism are invariably

directed. Power remains in the hands of those who have

historically had it in this country. Ever look at the racial profile

of NOW executives? Make no mistake. The margins are rich.

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