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American counterparts?
by Arlington

What if Solzhenitsyn were an American writer who chose to speak out against the imbalance involved in "freeing" Iraq from Saddam Hussein at the cost of an unknown number of lives? Not to mention our own little GULAG in Cuba. Not to mention an unknown number of persons "rendered" to undisclosed locations for torture and indefinite detention.

Would the FBI not tap his phone and follow him around and harrass his friends? Would the NSA not monitor his overseas calls? Would the administration not use its leverage to prevent publication of his work? Would he not be placed on the no-fly list? Denied a passport? Detained for conspiring to aid terrorists?

One has to wonder.

Re: American counterparts?
by the true conservative
Ummm . . . You don't have to wonder. There are people whining about that crap all the time. Are any of those things happening to them?
Re: American counterparts?
by blueshift
Yup, no need to wonder. Amazing what 30 seconds with google can do for you.
Re: American counterparts?
by Savory Goodness

Arl -

I feel obliged to point out that you have - in writing - just impugned the US government's policies, likened Gitmo to Gulag, and spoken out against rendition.

So, has your government monitored your calls, black-listed your postings, lifted your passport, or detained you?

If not, then maybe your what-if question is already answered.

Re: American counterparts?
by Courtland Nerval

Savory Goodness:

Arl -

I feel obliged to point out that you have - in writing - just impugned the US government's policies, likened Gitmo to Gulag, and spoken out against rendition.

So, has your government monitored your calls, black-listed your postings, lifted your passport, or detained you?

If not, then maybe your what-if question is already answered.

Thats one of the Dumbest things I have read all year. NO, he has not been persecuted for a web-post he made a few hours ago. However MANY people in this country have been for their rather public statements; and of course we all know that the internet is a bit different don't we.

The difference with what is happening in the US is one of degree, not kind.

Your name ought to be Savory Douchebag

my $.10

Re: Did you take the same 30 sec to read it?
by Split-S

"Whether the ban is a case of mistaken identity or a reaction to Murphy's recent public criticism of the Bush administration, as Murphy alleges, is unclear."

The rest of the article is red meat, and unobjective.

"Murphy told the employee that he had recently given a speech criticizing the Bush administration. "That'll do it," the employee replied."

Who is this TSA "employee" and if he/her is not a complete fabrication, what are his/her motives, political veiws?

Besides, if merely publicaly criticizing Bush gets you the no fly list, then half of all proffessors on US campusses, nearly all comiedains, John Stewart, Amy Goodman, and Noam Chompsky should be grounded too... they are not.

Re: American counterparts?
by Arlington

As Courtland hinted, I'm not famous. I don't write for a newspaper. I don't publish books. I'm not the leader of any group or organization that criticizes the government, although I do belong to a couple such organizations.

So, a few items I posted here have probably been reviewed and tossed in the dust bin with a big yawn. "Another bleeding heart liberal com-symp."

If I made a bunch of phone calls to Iran to research my upcoming expose' of CIA complicity in the assassination of dissidents, you can bet "they" would come poking around. If I taught a seminar on domestic spying at some college, you better believe somebody would have a copy of my reading list, and might strike up some casual conversations with my students.

It wasn't that long ago the United States used the Stalinist tactic of fear to extract information from citizens. In the McCarthy era, many people named names to avoid punishment. Once the "investigations" got going, they fed on the sense of alarm people felt when they learned the government was infiltrated by thousands of communists, dupes and sympathizers. The only way to perpetuate this fiction was to keep expanding the scope of the inquiry, bringing more and more people under scrutiny, suggesting more agencies and institutions had been penetrated by spies.

It's different now. Nobody thinks the Taliban recruited ordinary Americans from all walks of life to steal state secrets. There's not a spy under every bed. Instead, the proposition is that lax immigration policy, freedom of religion and liberal tolerance have allowed smaller numbers of fanatics to set up secret organizations that raise money for foreign terrorists and, to a lesser degree, plot mischief here in the homeland.

Because these mysterious people don't all hold one ideology or belong to the modern equivalent of the Communist Party, we can't just make a list of suspect organizations and interview everyone on the membership rolls. We have to cast a wider net, and the only way to do this is spy on everyone and sort it all out by analysis. Monitor everything everybody says or writes, then pay closer attention to those who stimulate a certain number of "hits" when they're run through the computerized sifting process.

And the government learned a lesson from the HUAC fiasco. Don't do any of this in public. Don't let the courts in on the deal. Don't reveal to the public that we're building a huge domestic spying organizations, spanning several agencies, and blowing enormous sums of money, just to catch a few loonies.

So, nobody knows who's being watched. I think I'm too unimportant to merit any attention, but that's probably wrong in the literal sense. Somewhere in some concrete building, some "intelligence analyst" has probably reviewed something I posted on Slate, picked out a few key words, and added them to a few other key words under my name. If the list ever grows long enough, someone might actually retrieve the content and read what I said, but that's unlikely.

The point is, nobody is completely under the radar anymore. That's what makes it more efficient than the old Soviet system. Electronic compilation and evaluation means "they" don't have to spy on everyone to a significant extent. They just spy on everyone a tiny bit, and in ways we'll never discover. We can't object to our civil rights being violated, because the violations, if they're even violations, are so small as to be harmless.

But they're still watching. Don't doubt that for a moment.

Re: American counterparts?
by Dobutsu
Hey Arlington, how about a list of all your civil rights that you have been denied. I have not heard or know of one citizen in this country that has been spied on or denied their rights. Name one! And by the way, those detainees in Gitmo are KILLERS you numbskull. They will kill you , your family, your friends, and wipe out your neighborhood with a smile. Infidel!
Re: American counterparts?
by blueshift

You haven't heard of one? He was a pretty big deal when they arrested him...

Oh, and if these guys in Gitmo are all are the "worst of the worst", then why is Fox news saying:

"Parhat never fought against the United States and the government concedes there's no evidence he ever intended to."

Re: American counterparts?
by Vivian Darkbloom
thus, instantly making AMERIKKKA the worstest country ever, far worster than the USSR could ever hope to be! and that ChimpyMcHitlerBurton, besides having an IQ of -480, is eviler than Hitler and Stalin and...Reagan combined!!
Re: American counterparts?
by JackHughes

Killers? Except for the innocent 2/3 who have already been released with the "Sorry, we didn't mean to torture you -- no hard feelings?" statement from the US government.

If those guys (and their friends and relatives) didn't want to kill us before, they most certainly do now.

Oh, and by the way, Americans can't prove they have been spied on because it's a FUCKING NATIONAL SECURITY SECRET!

Re: American counterparts?
by Mactosh
You are too clever for me turtbloom...what the hell is ChimpyMcHitlerBurton sposed to stand for?
Re: American counterparts?
by Vivian Darkbloom

my sea-monkeys are more clever than you, Mactush, so i'm sorry but i just can't accept your compliment.

The Evil Smirking Emperor ChimpyMcHitlerburton is your worstest nitemare...and i think you know who he is.

Re: American counterparts?
by Neolefty

I have not heard or know of one citizen in this country that has been spied on or denied their rights. Name one!

I can name thousands, beginning with those who were detained during the RNC convention in 2004 for protesting in NYC or for just happening to be standing in the wring place at the wrong time.

Ever heard of "free speech zones"? Well, before Dubya came to power, that included all of the US.

Oh and what about the 400 thousand or more US citizens who are listed as "terrorist" and denied the right to fly? What about the parents who are unable to board a plane with their infant becasue the child's name is shared by one of these so called "terrorists"?

What about those who are denied the right to board a plane if they wear an anti-Bush t-shirt?

And by the way, those detainees in Gitmo are KILLERS you numbskull. They will kill you , your family, your friends, and wipe out your neighborhood with a smile. Infidel!

Which is why two thirds of them were released by the US military on the grounds that there was no evidence against them.

The Evil Smirking Emperor ChimpyMcHitlerburton is your worstest nitemare

Used to be, if he ever was. Today, he's so insignificant that even Faux news doesn't bother reporting on him anymore.

Re: American counterparts?
by Mactosh
How much of a degenerate subliterate do you have to be to know what ChimpyMchitlerBurton is supposed to mean?
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