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Applebaum on Putin
by jamest

I was walking out of a metro station in Moscow in 1998 when a police officer began screaming at an old woman who was selling oranges there, overturned the table spilling the oranges onto the ground and advancing menacingly at the woman. I asked my Russian friend what was happening, and he shook his head in disgust and explained that the policeman was extorting money from the seller and that this was typical behavior on their part.

I was back in Russia a few months ago and amazed by the difference. The people were richer and more optimistic, the police were not shaking down the citizenry as much (though they are certainly not fully reformed), and I did not see a single hungry looking grandmother begging in front of the train stations.

Applebaum tells us some typical stories about how messed up thing are in Russia, and cunningly implies that this is all new under Putin - but based on what I saw and what my friends tell me everything from kidnappings to "Kafka-esque bureaucracy" and "major swindles" has improved under Putin. The West did not object when Putin's predecessors were running Russia into the ground because they were all pro-western - now that Russia has a leader who is nationalistic we hear about how messed up Russia is.

I should point out that my one good friend who is Russian is not pro-Putin - he has lived in the west and knows what good governance is. But even he will admit that Putin is better (for Russia) than those who preceded him.

Re: Applebaum on Putin
by mtuck71

I am an American and have been living in Russia non-stop since 1992. I've seen the mess that was under Yeltsin and I've enjoyed the economic growth under Putin.

However, the same social issues that existed in 1992 still exist today. Ms. Applebaum perhaps was in Russia during a surprisingly unlucky time for a lot of people, but her underlying point is perfectly on-target. There exists no civil society nor sense of community. Corruption is rampant. The policemen that kicked over the old lady's oranges have graduated to kicking over legitimate business. Politicians enter politics to further their own business interests and, not suprisingly, political parties lack identifiable platforms. The legal system is arbitrary. The press -- especially TV -- have given up all pretense of objectivity. People are so used to being lied to here that passively accept every single lie coming from the seats of power.

Russians believe in the concept of the "benign Czar." They want someone in power who will guarantee them a stable life in exchange for their unconditional subservience.

But I have a different theory: the current government benefits from the fact that the people have lost faith in it as an institution that can positively affect the country. In other words, the peole do not care what the government does...as long as it doesn't affect them personally. As a result, the government bureaucrats get to do what they want (get rich). And while the people benefit economically, they suffer socially.

This is truly sad for a country with such warm, smart, funny people who deserve better.

Re: Applebaum on Putin
by incunabulum

Yep. I knew a guy whose family was also forced out of their state-owned apartment. The city government was supposed to show them three different comparable apartments so that he could choose the best one for his family. They showed him one cramped 2BR apartment an hour outside of the city and was basically told, "Here ya go -- this is your new home!" He appealed the selection process to the Moscow City Government, which took about two years. All he wanted was more living options. He lost. I guess the saying "You can't fight City Hall" is a ubiquitous one that knows no borders.

It's a shame that the real estate developers will make millions on this deal. Meanwhile, hi family's lifestyle will deteriorate. His commute is longer, he is less comfortable and he said that the schools aren't as good.

Re: Applebaum on Putin
by hommesuisse

Jamest tells it like it is. Applebaum is not reporting. Certainly, one could find sufficient sad stories of real estate displacement or seemingly misguided or negligient medical care in Washington or its suburbs. Brooklyn, the Bronx, Newark, or Upper Manhattan?

Putin is no saint. One needs to watch the middle class that has come into existence under his watch. Fascism, as seems to be coming into fashion in the US, could become a force to be reckoned with in a divided society without the leadership he has demonstrated.

The US media needs people to be cartoon characters. Putin, a Russian, fills one of your familiar "evil" boxes. Fortunately, he's neither burly nor big. Instead, your media makes him into some weasily (sp?) sort of guy.

Surveys here show your Bush frightens people. Putin is not even on the list.

Re: Applebaum on Putin
by Ladlestein

Hommesuisse and jamest, _you're_ not reporting. All you're saying is "Anne is wrong, everything is fine here".

And I must say, you do not get the benefit of the doubt. We have read over the years of the loss of independence in the Russian media. I suspect that you either don't know what's going on or are full of shit.

Prove me wrong, or if you can't do that, at least suggest to me why it should be as you say it is.

Re: Applebaum on Putin
by jamest

I absolutely did not say that everything is fine in Russia - I said quite the opposite. I was simply trying to point out that replacing Putin with someone like Yeltsin is not going to turn Russia into another Poland. Anyone who knows both the Poles and the Russians (and I have lived in Poland and traveled across Russia) knows that. They are very different cultures with very different mentalities (in very different economic and political circumstances - Poland is part of the EU for gosh sakes).

In her article Anne mentions Putin's "penchant for breaking weapons treaties". Indeed Putin has pulled out of the CFE pact. Why? Well, because Bush unilaterally pulled out of the ABM treaty and then got to work at putting ABM sites around Russia. Hey - these guys have the legal right to withdraw from these treaties if they want. But how come Anne castigates Putin for "breaking" the CFE treaty but didn't ever call Bush a "treaty breaker" when he withdrew from the ABM treaty?

Don't worry - the Russian press is exactly the same. They also apply double standards and root consistently for the "home team".

Re: Applebaum on Putin
by hommesuisse

Ladlestein--As I noted, Americans only see things in cartoon black and white. I said "Putin is not a saint". I will add that Russia has profound problems. As Jamest noted, they were closer to hell 7 years ago. I know Russia reasonably well. Here in Switzerland, we all know a few too many Russians--many whom are hiding from Putin's eyes.

Condoleeza Rice claims to be a Russia expert--well, perhaps she claims no post-Soviet knowledge, as that is what she did her term papers on. It is well known that she speaks not a word of Russian. Neither did she even cross a Berlin checkpoint out of curiosity. her first exposure to the world of her "expertise" was when she attended a conference in 1993.

Thus, could this be the reason that Brent Snowcroft and Papa stood with Short George at their family house, while Condi hung about in the kitchen with the staff? Ignorance guides America.

America is playing power and money games with Russia today. Putin is showing he has a good poker face. Your corporations are caught having exploited weakness with US legal games in agreeing contracts under the hugely corrupt Yeltsin regime--mostly now living in Switzerland or the UK. Read the comments of Exxon's CEO two weeks ago. Putin is trying to play cards--often cynically--vis-à-vis Iran, the ME and China. Nonetheless, he sems to have been more effective at advancing some worthy agendas than your government.

Still, much is at risk and more is being squandered. I will conclude that Russia has developed far more positively as a society under Putin than America has under Bush.

That said, Moscow is hardly a place I want to live. Reread my post and note my concern for the emergence of signs of a new middle class fascism in Russia. Also, read some reports that will show you that enforcements counter to the precious freedoms you cite need to be understood in the context of the total lawlessness that preceded and the countless mafias that operate in Russia. Many applaud his efforts to break the backs of these subversive enterprises. Context and nuance are needed. You and your media should go down and get visas and take a look for yourselves.

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