I'll admit, when I was young, I rooted for Chang, because of his ethnicity. But as I got older, your points about his compromising, compensating style of play became painfully apparent as a racial metaphor. You're absolutely right.

Things won't change soon, though, as far as the cultural pigeonholing and stereotyping of asians. It's not important enough to the majority of asian-americans, to do anything about it. I played football in high school, was an 2nd-team all-metro area receiver and defensive back, and played the game with pure bloodlust and hatred, with the goal of humiliating, crushing the guy lining up across from me, because this was the most effective way to dispel the stereotype I felt enveloping me. I was only 5'8", but I was fast, agile, and pretty unstoppable in the open field. But there was just no way that my parents would've allowed me to play college ball.

Now I'm a 30-yr-old ER doctor in New York--shocker. However, the one thing I've learned is, when you're responsible for your own identity, and forge it in the fires of experience and honest introspection--your internal reality informs your external one. Even hardened stereotypes crumble in the face of incontrovertible evidence. I'm confident, incorrigible, edgy, and tend to be a social epicenter. I'm a shameless flirt, and I date attractive women of many ethnicities, and I'm good at it, not because I always was, but because I made myself good at it. I love asian women, but try not to date them, because I feel like I'm betraying my principles (though I can't help myself). And when I'm in a room full of people, where I'm the only asian guy, I love that no one is thinking about that. And if any stranger were to suggest that I perhaps was meek, asexual, lacking in testosterone based on my ethnicity, they'd probably get laughed out of the bar. Because I define myself, it's not defined by my skin color. (though it is ridiculous that I actually carry around photographic evidence on my iPhone that I don't exactly need a longer racket).

I'm not the only one. But the battering rams of our progress are not readily manned. We impede ourselves the same way that black and hispanic americans do. The psychological principles are shared. We're haters. If someone is doing something you wish you were, the solution, rather than engineering your own success, is to pull that person down to the mean. We also segregate ourselves, create new differences. I'm not suggesting homogeneity, but why (?!?) does your race have to be the strongest determinant of who you are?

ok, you say some fabulously interesting stuff. the tangles of all the things going on in this post!

First you say that as a teenager you did something (play football) to set yourself apart from a stereotype, then you grew up and realized you don't have to do this because you are who you are. But I am not clear from later on whether you are the center of attention and flirt successfully because this is your natural personality or because you are still pushing against a stereotype? Also, on one level you have some bizarre (at least to me) preference not to date Asian women, but then on anther level you don't want to pass the chance up to date an interesting/hot girl no matter her race.

I think that much like the author of this piece you don't like to be pigeon-holed based on race and especially resented it as a teenager, just like him you pushed back, which now to a great extent defines you. I'm not sure that means you are any more free of the stereotype, don't you let the stereotype define you by forcefully being its opposite? Also, I don't think the author was being a hater just because he apparently wasn't as successful at the sport he chose as you were at the one you chose. Although, it seems he didn't admit to being totally unsuccessful tennis player just that he could have been a slightly better tennis player if he hadn't had some ridiculous teenage stubbornness in the way. What if one of the Asian girls you broke-up with or didn't date was really your soul-mate and would've completed you but you didn't date her or broke up with her because to be the anti-stereotype you have to be dating a non-Asian woman???

The piece does not tear down Michael Chang, it just says that as an adult the author finds a different style of tennis play more compelling and that as a teenager he tried not to be defined by stereotypes to a somewhat self-defeating degree.

your post was great, hope you take the time to reply to mine.

InTheFoxhole and im1 –

Thanks for your interesting posts. I’m also an Asian guy who has agonized over how to respond in my own life to the pervasive demeaning stereotypes about Asian men. (Actually I’m half-white, half-Asian but at the risk of oversimplifying, I’ll “check the box” and call myself Asian here.) I agree with a lot of the commenters on this piece that Asian men should try to ignore the stereotypes and live their lives as if they didn’t exist. But of course the people who say that are not Asian men; if they were, they would know how hard that is.

Having said that, I’d like to think I’ve found a pretty comfortable middle ground in my own life. Growing up, I was the “typical Asian kid.” I always did my homework and got fantastic grades, had overprotective parents, and was awkward around the opposite sex. Thankfully, though, I was also over 6 feet tall, was reasonably good at whatever sport I felt like playing, and had plenty of friends. So I didn’t get the worst of the treatment Asians often get at the hands of their non-Asian peers. But I got enough of it to realize that the world (at least in my lifetime in the US) would perceive me through the lens of the pervasive demeaning stereotypes about Asian men.

So what have I done? I’ve basically run as far away from those stereotypes as I can. Not because I despise the many, many Asians who give credence to them, but because they don’t accurately characterize me. I therefore refuse (in the face of considerable peer pressure) to join “Asian” organizations and cliques – where Asians hang out with other Asians just because they’re all Asian. And I make friends of all races and live the life of a typical headstrong young person of any race (with all of its parties, concerts, travel, etc.). And I recently married the love of my life (a Chinese woman) without giving a thought to her race. And most significantly, I’ve decided to pursue a career in law – one of the few professional fields where Asians are still underrepresented. (Yes, yes – I know many Asians are going into law these days (mostly corporate law), but try looking for Asian partners at law firms. You won’t find many.) By going into law (partly) for this reason, I may have “let the stereotypes control my life,” but I figure that’s better than going into a field like science, engineering, or medicine – where the stereotypes are intolerably stifling, where no matter how successful you are, you’re just another “egghead Asian with no cojones who can be pushed around.” I have no doubt that people still see me through the lens of stereotypes about Asians, but I’ve made it harder for them. They’re not used to seeing an Asian lawyer, and, to the extent they try to apply the general stereotypes about Asians to me, I take great pleasure in refuting those stereotypes –as a brash, articulate litigator with no lack of confidence or ambition.

So what’s my point? I guess I’m trying to say that Asian men should try to live their lives as if there were no pervasive demeaning stereotypes about Asian men. But I’m also saying that I understand how difficult it is to do that. The world’s a messed up place, and racial stereotypes are a big part of that. Stereotypes inflict a lot of psychological harm on Asian men who just want to fit in and get ahead like everyone else. A lot of those Asian men, for one reason or another, will become the kind of people who confirm the stereotypes. That’s fine – they have a perfect right to do that, and society has no right to look down on them for that. But society will still demean them for it. So for all those Asian men out there who don’t fit the stereotypical mold, I suggest fighting back by being yourself. You have to put up with a lot of crap that non-Asians don’t have to put up with, but there’s also a lot of satisfaction to be gleaned from succeeding in life and simultaneously tearing down the pervasive demeaning stereotypes about Asian men.

Wow, InTheFoxHole is so cool! He is a shameless flirt and dates MANY women, ATTRACTIVE women, of ALL ethnicities (whatever race you are, he's dated your hottest sister!) Oh, but not Asian women, because, you know, he's such a doggone great PLAYA, but he also has PRINCIPLES (what a guy!!) that command him not to disrespect the sistahood. You know, he's such a charmer that he can't bind himself to one gal, and he doesn't wanna lead the poor innocent, monogamous (stereotype, anyone? naw, not InTheFoxHole!) Asian girls on.

Oh yeah, and he was an unstoppable, mad-tough football player too. He would've played Division I college "ball" for sure if it weren't for his parents (and would have been just as unstoppable there -- you'd better believe it). Good thing he's also brilliant, just brilliant, and thus is a doctor (an incredibly successful one, no doubt -- not sure how he forgot to work that in). Yeah, there are lots of doctors in the world, plenty of them a lot dimmer than the rest of us (well, than me, anyway), but you can rest safe in the knowledge that InTheFoxHole ain't one of 'em. This guy, he's SPECIAL.

InTheFoxHole, you managed to answer teh first two-thirds of the query you're inevitably going to field hundreds of times based on your post -- that is, A/S... but what about the L? We're all waiting with breathless anticipation, you narcissistic solipsistic chump.

First off, I'm loving all of this dialogue generated on this topic. It's one that doesn't get discussed too often. It's also good to see the diversity in perspective amongst Asian Americans. There are so many things I could respond to after reading InThe Foxhole's commentary (and the ones that followed), but the one that really struck a chord with me is InThe Foxhole's comment about impeding ourselves. I see this on a regular basis.

As a group lumped together in this country, whether we like it or not, whether it makes sense or not, we have not empowered ourselves the way that we could. We don't necessarily understand "the game" the way we should. Now I'm by no means an expert on any of the areas I'm about to mention, but I am an observer who would like to suggest that it's not only "society" who's at fault (I'm not letting the media, etc. off the hook); there's more that individual Asian Americans (APAs, APIs, AAPIs) can do to take responsibility.

--We don't stick together when it comes to supporting our own. It was evident during the Wen Ho Lee and the Asiangate fundraising scandals during the Clinton administration. I saw Chinese American scientists at a nearby National Lab forced to submit to racial profiling measures at their workplace--because many didn't see the broadbrush implications of accusing one man of Chinese descent of being a spy (when others who were white during the same year were acquitted for much larger violations). We could have learned a lesson from African Americans who rallied behind OJ and the Jewish donors who heavily support pro-Israel agendas. We may not have the numbers to swing the vote, but we do have strength in numbers when it comes to contributing to causes we believe in, whether candidates or public policy issues.

--We have money, but we don't always give back. Thankfully, there's a large group of activists and contributors who support their grassroots and even national Asian American advocacy groups, but what about the average Asian American family? Are they active, whether politically, philathropically, or socially? I would assert "no." We don't have a Jesse Jackson to give us a rallying cry and we don't often see the big picture of how one little thing could have further implications. That's why Abercrombie & Fitch a few years back and even Chicago Cubs vendors selling Fukadome t-shirts now thought it was ok to put racist, stereotypical images on apparel. Imagine putting comparable slogans and images about African Americans, Jews or Latinos. No other group would have tolerated it and no manufacturer to the masses would have ever thought it would be acceptable. The few groups that have tried to speak out weren't supported by the critical mass. The values of giving back to community or even to stand up and support or decry are not instilled in the average Asian American. That's a problem!

--Lastly, we don't always take individual accountability. Whether or not I agree with InTheFoxhole's tactics on everything, he demonstrated that he observed the rules of a game and adapted by empowering himself. In my field, I hear the sad stories about Asian Americans who are passed by for corporate advancement. It's a pattern and it's one we need to teach to kids entering college and into the workforce. Hard work and technical skills are not enough to differentiate yourself. These will get you so far in many corporate settings, but at some point, leadership skills come into play. And when I say leadership skills, I mean exhibiting the behaviors that this society uses to define leadership. This is where Asian Americans can empower themselves to know how the game is played and adapt.

All Asian Americans in corporate America (and other arenas) should buy for themselves and their children, Jane Hyun's book, "Breaking the Bamboo Ceiling: Career Strategies for Asians." She deconstructs and offers interpretations of behaviors in the workplace and how they differ for Asian Americans and the broader population. It's a great tool not only Asian American employees but for managers who have Asian American employees. We've had Jane Hyun (see www.janehyun.com) speak at local community events and at my company. It's always interesting to watch the audience--how many Asian Americans awaken from their slumber and start making mental lists of what they could be doing to take control of their careers again.

Financial, social and career empowerment are areas we as a group need to further examine. I invite my fellow Asian Americans to CARE next time there's a backlash against people of Asian descent, next time a community group holds a fundraiser, next time they have a discussion about career goals with their manager, and in November at the voting booths.

I hope all of this dialogue continues beyond Slate to get more people involved at a larger level.

I agree with you 100%. Now I'm a 'half breed' (Mom is asian, dad is 'white guy from Philly') so it was easy to NOT be classifed into any group.

To be free one needs to have NO group associations. I don't even like being classified as 'male' since this implies associations.

Now you didn't mention your parents. Typically parents are the number one reason people don't develop an independent sence of self. It is parents that want their kids to remain like them (Asian, African, Jewish, etc...).

Even my mom tries to tell me I should be more Japanese, whatever that means, which is total crap. I try hard not to favor any one culture over another.

Do your parents accept that you are progressive?

In many ways your story is my story (half white \ half asian) and I agree that one should just ignore the sterotypes and become who one really wants to be (which is typically taking the good from many cultures instead of being tied to anyone specific culture).

But I do question that this task of become yourself separate from the 'made up' sterotypes is difficult.

What I would find difficult is trying to live a life as a stereotype (e.g. latino gang member, 'smart and clean' Asian dude etc,,). NOW that is difficult.

Of course having to tell ones family 'hey, I'm NOT going to play your game, but my own' is difficult but it just part of growing up.

jazzguitarman --

My mother is white; my father is Asian. Neither really seems to care about how I approach my race/identity, and we don't talk about it much, if at all. I suppose this comes from the fact that the town I grew up in was almost completely white. So any all-Asian activities/functions would have been pretty lonely.

But even when I went to the east coast for college and first encountered large concentrations of Asians who self-segregated, I didn't see much use or fun in that. I understand that my experience is pretty atypical, but I think it's the way forward. Group associations are a dead end. The sooner we get rid of them the better.

jazzguitarman --

I agree with you completely. I suspect, however, that we come from two different milieus. At the risk of being presumptive, I'm going to guess that you grew up in an environment that was relatively more tolerant and/or racially integrated than the one I grew up in (i.e., a lily-white, racist midwestern suburb). In your environment, it's much easier to separate oneself from stereotypes. In my environment, stereotypes were thrown in my face every day and it took real effort to brush them aside. I hope my kids' experience is more like yours.

Note that my reply was to the top poster that is 100% asian.

I find those that are half and half do NOT have parents that try to pull them in a certain direction since that would show a lack of respect for the other parent.

I believe that our experience as half \ half is atypical AND that it is the way forward, but just talk to parents from NON mixed house holds.

Most parents I talk to look at this lack of group association as if their kid is KILLING a part of them. The parents frame everything in terms of 'how could you DISH our traditions, your grandmothers from XYZ land etc...'.

My wife is Italian and her parents cried like babies when she told them she liked asian food more than Italian food! Really parents are just SICK human beings for holding these bogus notions so dear! (joking of course but only a little!).

SittingDuck,

The thing I love about words is, what the listener infers usually says far more about him, than it does about the speaker or even the content of the message itself. Thank you for projecting yourself onto this Rorschach, I learned a lot about you.

Btw, it absolutely is solipsistic. The same way that your insecurities somehow find their way into everyone's perception of you. I know you've noticed this. But hey, best of luck!

I'm actually a foreign student from Asia, so I don't really speak from the point of view as an America, but someone who's been here for about 11 years. For me, I like to live in cities that have niches of my ethnicity around, while I don't always hang out there. So I believe I can understand the thinking of the first generation immigrant parents here.

It's not that they don't want to assimilate, but it's close to impossible to completely assimilate. They're used to their culture, cuisine, and mindset, and being associated with their ethnicity groups feels more secure. And whenever they need help, it's easier for them to get help in their own communities. I admit I don't really agree with those parents who sort of force feed their kids their way of life and ethnic roots, so I believe what they need is just a slight balancing act, and their kids should try to understand that.

I completely agree with the observations and suggestions of a previous poster to the Asian community, but from my point of view, a lot of Asians who aren't brought up here have a slightly more "passive" attitude than typical Americans. It's not that we don't strive for success, or fight to get to the top, but at least in my case, I believe hard work speaks for itself. In the previously brought up scenario from the same poster, that promotion was passed up for an Asian employee, I agree that specific employee should for instance, talk to his/her superiors about the situation. If it were me, I would do the talk, but if their minds are set, that means they don't appreciate hardworking and worthy employees, so they probably don't deserve my service and I would look for another place that does. This would probably be viewed as being too "passive", but to me it would be a logical next step.