As in a thread below, this question has been batted around a bit, but I am actually interested what folks think about this subject.

Do kids need more protection now than 40 years ago?

There is not a product sold that doesn't have a warning label, usually directed at children. Things that are sharp, things that are hot, things that they can't eat, or swallow, or get otherwise sick from if not used according to the guidelines.

Warnings are every where. You could post all day listing the idiotic warnings like not using blowdryers in the shower.

I was a kid in the sixties and as far as I remember there were no warning labels -beyond poisons and such - on hardly anything.

Yet....I can't remember a single instance of a kid befallen by any of the horrible tragedies these warning labels predict.

Of course my 'statistics' are purely annecdotal, but you'd think I would have at least heard of some kid brain damaged because he didn't were his helmut or tried to swallow a pair of knitting needles. I'm sure it must have happen, but there was hardly an epidemic of kids dropping like flys from lack of product label warnings, bicycle helmets or cupboard latches to protect them.

Could it be an issue of supervision? Are today's kids in more danger because their parents don't teach them them basic survival skills?

When I was 5 years old, I could go fishing by myself in the creek that ran behind our house. The idea of drowning never came up. I knew how to swim. I knew fish hooks were sharp. I knew if I rode my bike too fast down the big hill going down to the water, I'd wipe out...and I knew it hurt.

I was never tempted to chew on light bulbs or grab the stove burner or drink Chlorox.

I didn't do a lot stupid shit because I was aware of the consequences, or at least suspected. Most of them involved a certain level of pain I didn't enjoy. Even at a very young age.

Is there some sort of disconnect today that prohibits children from using common sense?

Is this the "Jack Ass" generation?

Or could it be a case of the law of big numbers: there's just so many kids and so many lawyers we need to protect ourselves from any little possibility?

z

z

Very simple z.

The boomers started it.

They fear two things above all - death and any tragedy in their life.

Death because they're so self-involved that they can't imagine the world going on without them.

Tragedy because they've been coddled into thinking they deserve lives without tragedy.

So to stave off death, they run - miles per day.

And to stave off tragedy, they over-protect their kids.

Not hard to understand once you understand the narcissism behind it.

To my eye, there are several things going on here.

First, I think the warning labels thing is getting ridiculous. There was a thread about this a while back. I believe some of this is snowballing, as you suggest, because it seems some parents don't teach their kids about safety the way I was taught.

But aside from the labels, we as a society have learned a lot as we deal with mass-produced dangerous instrumentalities and we've (generally) decided that the benefits of things like bike helmets and seatbelts and steering-wheel columns that aren't metal spears outweigh the costs.

My pre-helmet bicycling days resulted in two trips to the ER. Both times I was doing something stupid. Neither would have been either prevented or reduced by a helmet or pads, but there you are. Kids do stupid stuff.

I don't know if you're a parent, zuko, but having a kid makes you acutely aware of avoidable dangers. I have two added "benefits" in seeing dangers - (1) I was a kid myself who took some crazy risks and (2) I'm a lawyer, so I see all the time "what could possibly go wrong." I had to force myself to stop reminding my kids to be careful every single damned time they went to descend a flight of stairs. I'm better now. Really.

If you come across that thread about warning labels and signs from a few months ago, track down the "ladder" warning label. Tears-of-laughter material.

No I don't have kids and understand I am at a disadvantage there. But also it seems that you made the point that I have the hard time with, "kid do stupid things."

Of course they do, but what I see is a boat load of kids doing way too many stupid things.

I can vividly remember, even amongst peers, at a very young age, weighing options and avoiding the worst of the stupid things. Practically everytime we hear about childhood injuries we go away shaking our heads.

To many stupid things going on.

On those occassions I did stupid things, the results were predicatable: I got hurt or, was punished for not having 'enough brains to come out of the rain' as my parents would note ...just before the belt came out.

I didn't go out looking to be stupid, after the age of 4 or 5 most consequences seemed pretty straight forward. oh well..

Maybe there's an equal need for helmets and sturdy belts.

z

Safety products are a big industry. Couple that with risk management and it's self propelled.

What the hell is so terrible about wearing a bicycle helmet? I wear a helmet when I skate, and it's probably saved me more than one trip to the ER. I ask that my daughter do the same when she rides her bike...am I really such a terrible father? It's not like there's a huge downside to wearing a helmet, is there?

I agree that some parents are over-protective and warning labels have gotten ridiculous. But I've also had dealings with parents whose casual disregard for their own children is downright frightening. I think these kids make up the "Jackass generation" of which you speak.

We did very little to "child-proof" our house when our daughter was born. She learned not to touch a cactus the hard way. However, I don't think I need to let her learn about rattlesnakes the hard way. I put "brain injury" in the same category as "venomous snake," and feel I ought to do what I can to prevent my daughter from becoming a victim of one or the other.

This is a natural result of the flood of frivilous law suits that have burdened the court systems in the last 20 years or so. Companies are taking every forseeable precaution to protect themselves from money seeking opportunists.

In my day a person who sat a hot cup of coffee on the dashboard of his car, then drove off and spilled it in his lap, would have blamed himself for being stupid, not the store that sold him the coffee.

Jack

I couldn't log in today. How could I be banned when I haven't been posting?

Anyhoo...

I am a overprotective mom. I *like* helmets and kneepads. My kids, tragically, were not allowed to play with fireworks, had strict curfews, and were disciplined when their behavior endangered themselves or others.

And yet...they survived without going postal. Go figure.

Well, z, if I had to guess based on insufficient information, I think that the "flood of frivolous lawsuits" that Jack mentions (I'm not sure I'd call it a flood - topic for another day) and the lack of parenting that you, I and others have mentioned are symptoms of a broader American syndrome: not taking personal responsibility. And as I said, I do think they're snowballing. Uneducated kids hurting themselves, more lawsuits, more warning labels, still less need for self-reliance.

Like lano, I did not go to very great lengths to child-proof my house and instead invested the effort in teaching my kids some rules and some common sense.

On the subject of bicycle helmets, how are you going to teach your kids never to fall from a bike or skateboard? How are you going to teach them never to be hit by a drunk driver?

I can't resist telling you a story, and I hope Noah Dallas reads it, too. There was a fellow around these parts who was driving in one direction on an Interstate highway when a tire (and wheel) came loose from a tractor-trailer going the other direction. It exploded the roof of his car, and, pretty much, his head. Through the miracles of modern medicine he is alive today and can walk and talk.

But if you take him out, you have to go to the bathroom with him because by the time he shakes and zips, he won't remember where he came from or with whom. He will never again remember what he had for breakfast this morning or any morning.

In the lawsuit, as I recall, both sides agreed that just his future medical expenses would exceed the $6 m insurance available. Forget about past and future lost income. Forget about pain, loss of the enjoyment of life. Forget about compensating his wife.

He got the $6 m.

And then his workers comp insurer (he was at work at the time) took a big chunk of it as compensation for the medical and wage loss benefits they'd already paid him.

That one man makes up for the few frivolous claims that actually make it all the way through our system and result in a payout to a deadbeat.

And that one story means my kids do on their bikes the equivalent of what we all do in our cars. "Click it."

I don't think there's anything wrong with it. And maybe I was putting too fine a point on things.

Without disparaging in any way you own parenting, I think that there is an increased reliance on things like helmets by many parents as a substitute for instilling common sense.

Almost like superficially overprotective, absolves them of the repsonsibility of developing life skills in their kids.

Armchair philosophy.

z

Oh, I don't disagree. Example: my son's only 14, but already I'm talking to him about safe driving skills. And he will learn to drive in vehicles that are (almost literally) like a padded cell compared to the deathtraps I used to ride around in.

I recently read an article (could have been here?) making the serious suggestion that all of our road signs are making our roads less safe, as the sap our attention to the road and our recognition of personal responsibility.

And always remember: "Do Not Pass Snow Plow On Right"

I have to agree with JackDallas. The idea of being reasonable or unreasonable has been replaced with the idea of can I sue or be sued as a result of this action. Lawyers win, reason looses. The US is by far the most letigious society in the history of mankind and warning lables on everything is just a small consequence of that.

Who would have guessed?

(Hey - StandardDeviation - that was a perfect echo of your style, no?)

I tend to run into it a lot at work in particular. One child gets West Nile virus, and the next week the ED is stuffed with kids who have a severe case of one mosquito bite and a frantic parent. Ditto salmonella in vegetables, or pretty much any other recent health issue you can name. And what's strangely consistent is that the things that cause the greatest panic are the ones that pose the smallest risk.

Sometimes it reminds me a bit of Maslow's hierarchy of needs from back in my freshman Psychology class. I wonder if by virtue of Americans generally having their "core" or foundational needs reliably met, they give themselves more time to worry about the peripheral stuff. I'm pretty sure that child molesters and abductors aren't more common than they used to be, but it's easier to spend time worrying about them when the simple day-to-day doesn't present the chance of your child getting polio or dying from pertussis.

I think you could also fairly assign a pretty hefty chunk of blame to the media. I hesitate to say it, just because the media is usually a convenient scapegoat for anything and anybody, but there's a lot of people out there who make a lot of money based on their ability to make you afraid to walk out your front door.

All of that being said, one of my few certainties in life is that if/when I have children, they will wear helmets. My friend Josh put it well when I was considering whether to buy a ski helmet and asked him if he really thought it was necessary: "I dunno. How much is your head worth to you?"

40 years ago would be 1968. not exactly the same as the idyllic 1950s, but i would still say the threat level is "elevated" today

10 - teen pregnancy rates and unwed mothers are higher today

9 - more dangerous drugs (crack, ecstacy, etc) beyond the very limited use of heroin and other hard narcotics in the past

8 - higher incidence of STDs, including HIV/AIDS

7 - kids are sexually active at a younger age

6 - more single parent households, and 2 income households where the kids are unsupervised for longer times

5 - more kids have cars (or so it seems)

4 - more alcohol consumption by teens - especially under 16

3 - higher incidence of urban gun ownership (i admit i'm just guessing here, since i didn't live in 1968. but i can tell you handguns are VERY prevalent in baltimore, and homicide rates are MUCH higher)

2 - more ethnic tensions. minorities such as latinos, koreans, arabs, indians seem to agree that our ability to just get along isn't improving

1 - more reliance on fast food, more television viewing, less participation in sports, more shoplifting . . . the list goes on and on