The "Bush War" with Iraq and Afghanistan has already effectuated our economy driving oil prices to astronomical highs and devaluated our currency. Our Presidential candidates strategy, send in more combat brigades, boost economic aid to Iraq and Afghanistan by billions, triple monetary aid to Pakistan and buy off insurgents and the various tribes in Afghanistan not to shoot us. Our patriotic politicians pandering to the Jewish vote have also vowed to support Israel in an aggressive attack on Iran. Were’s the money coming from? If it grows on trees go for it.

America is in billions of dollars of debt. We have been for years. But we're already in this war, so we might as well... Well, I'd say we might as well "finish" it, but my question is, when will we know we "won" the war? What landmark on the timetable of history will show us that we "won" the war?

mrsbirdy42, I have heard your question from the grave, and all I can tell you is, these Aghans are an unmangeable lot, and they will not stop attacking my armies - Barbur, 1st Emperor of the Mogul Empire, you remember me as TimurLane.

I too have heard your question mrsbird. My name is Alexander the II, you know me as Alexander the Great. It seems I have run afoul of the Afghan also, and have been layed-up with an arrow in my leg.

mrsbird42, allow me to introduce myself to you, I am Sir Mortimer Durand, our British forces have had one disaster after another in Afghanistan, and I am therefore, creating a buffer line, between our colony in India and this lawless region.

Comrade bird, I am LtGen Boris Gromov, I command the Russian 40th Army, we are leaving for good, after 9 years of fighting in Afghanistan.

We all wish you mrsbirdy42, and your fellow Americans luck.

And how will you know you have won? Oh, you'll know alright!

When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,

And the women come out to cut up what remains,

Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains

And go to your God like a soldier.

—Rudyard Kipling

Come on Tyro....we should quit because everybody else failed?

Or are you just trying to emphasize the point that this isn't going to be easy?..especially if Pakistan continues to give refuge.

We aren't fighting the Afghans...we are simply fighting in Afghanistan against another invading force that was there before us.

The Russians would have taken Afghanistan had it not been for our "aid".

Afghanistan is formiddable against large massive armies marching through their lands, as in Alexander's and Sir Durand's days. Large slow moving masses transiting narrow passages in mountainous regions are easy pickings for anyone that can throw a rock even. Not so much now in days where we can simply bypass those very mountains, and the Russians would have been fine had we not supplied the means to bring down their whirly birds and other air assets.

Hello Rubma. I'm always glad to hear from you old man : - )

Afghanistan, has now become a country of important issues, though most don't know it. Most Americans, if asked, think bin-Ladan is hiding out somewhere west of there and that's all they know about the country.

Frankly, the real problem is we have paid attention to the cities when in fact the real power is derived from the countryside.

Historically no one has ever been able to control the countryside which is why I made a parody of the issue!

Perhaps our new CENTCOM will see this - actually, I know he does. But will he have the military power to influence it?

Afghanistan is a country where insurgencies go forward into Pakistan, Iran, Kryg/Uzbeki/Tajeki-stans, and even Russia. Most American politicians and those in uniform don't understand the ramifications.

Of course I know it's importance Rubma. Do our presidential candiates?

"Yet who would have thought the old man to have had so much blood in him?" Shakespeare, Macbeth

Salut mon ami, Rubma. I think our Tyrtaios knows Afghanistan well. : - ) He is what we call a comique or drolatique at times when he writes, no?

He points out that time is against our campagne militaires in Afghanistan. We in the west must remember the Afghan measure time in generations. What will America's measurement be?

Au fait Rubma, we are in a sense fighting the Afgan, as the Taliban are comprised of the Pashtun, who of course are part of the region. They have watched armies come and go for thousands of years!

The Taliban are like insects, they travel in small groups undetected and come together in a swarm when least expected - is this not assymetric? We operate in their backyard, and they eat away at what they want.

Adieu Rubma, I must go now, I am sure I embarrass our Tyro, which of course, amuses me. : - )

Effectuated? WTF! I give you that classic line from the movie Transformers:

"English, Dude. English"

If by "countryside" you mean poppy growing, I agree. A delicate situation indeed. Destroy the crops, and you make an enemy. Allow the crops to grow, and the farmer sells to your enemy.

Perhaps we could get them into biofuels?

With their climate, the next big energy export that needs to come from the Middle East is solar power. I'm surprised U.A.E. isn't jumping all over that, instead of building indoor ski slopes in Dubai. Not that an indoor ski slope in the Middle East isn't awesome and all, but they might calibrate their priorities a bit for a better long-term plan. They can run out of oil, but they're not running out of sunlight until the thing burns out or blows up.

Rubma --

In the event that the CENTCOM can say in public that it's a lousy idea to pull troops from Afghanistan to shore up a short-term peace in Iraq, and not get fired for his honesty, I'll believe that our government takes afghanistan seriously. Maybe next government, next year?

Quill --

Yes of course solar and wind farming would be naturals in the middle east, as they are in Texas. And wouldn't nuclear energy be a natural in Iran, given they already mine for uranium there?

Oops.

Speaking of that, how DID Israel get all that enriched uranium in the first place? And if we're so determined to prevent crazy people from having nuclear weapons why do we commit to fattening the Indian nuclear weapons program?

Oh hm. I know this is off-topic, but if some trucial sheik wants to build a ski resort in hell, I guess it's less objectively harmful than some other ways of spending his money. I personally wish they'd invest in rebuilding Beirut instead, but I guess that's not forward-thinking enough.

dantesfurlough:

Effectuated? WTF! I give you that classic line from the movie Transformers:

"English, Dude. English"

It was Bush-speak, D.