In 2006 and 2007, they were in a rush (along with the media) to use the term "civil war" to describe Iraq. "Things not going well" or "Secterian violence" wasn't enough. They needed the words "civil war" because it would have the most impact of an American failure in Iraq. Now, however, there is no flexbility when it comes to the situation in Iraq. It doesn't matter that violence is down to the lowest level in four years. It doesn't matter that Al Qaida has been pushed out of the country. It doesn't matter that even Sadr City is seeing development. It doesn't matter the sunni bloc is back in the government. It doesn't matter that sunni countries are opening up diplomatic relationships with Iraq's shia majority goverment. It doesn't matter sunni countries are forgiving debts that belongs to Iraq. It doesn't matter that Kuwait has an ambassador to Iraq.

We have not met 3 of the 18 objectives so therefore it is a failure. So any time we are failing...objectivity and detail goes out the window...only the worst terminology will do. When we are succeeding at any level however, it is time for over analysis. Yet...don't question your patriotism.

BTW, did Malaki agree with a 16 month time table when Obama first started talking about it in January 2007 (18 months ago for those who can't seem to keep a proper timeline)? Or did he support the surge?

Civil War was being used because it more accurately described what was going on and what will happen again when we leave if the Iraqi Constitution isn't fixed. Your delusion that we have actually made REAL progress already doesn't mean much. The Iraqi Constitution hasn't been fixed. Iraqis are not all held to be equal under the laws and are still divided. We have forced a lid on a boiling pot and held it down. When we lift enough pressure, the contents will splatter out under the pressure building under the lid.

"We have not met 3 of the 18 objectives so therefore it is a failure."

The failure is that we are still there after five years, it's still costing us lives, and it's still costing us money.

The surge allowed de facto partition to occur on the ground, allowed ethnic cleansing of entire neighborhoods and towns, and allowed insurgents to enrich themselves off our bribary of them. We protected the Iranian Shia regime of al-Maliki against our natural allies, the Sunni Arabs, and allowed Iran to cement its hold on eastern Iraq and the southern oilfields.

LT-7:

Civil War was being used because it more accurately described what was going on and what will happen again when we leave if the Iraqi Constitution isn't fixed. Your delusion that we have actually made REAL progress already doesn't mean much. The Iraqi Constitution hasn't been fixed. Iraqis are not all held to be equal under the laws and are still divided. We have forced a lid on a boiling pot and held it down. When we lift enough pressure, the contents will splatter out under the pressure building under the lid.

At least that's what you hope eh? Gotta get that loss in Iraq...

tsedek:

"We have not met 3 of the 18 objectives so therefore it is a failure."

The failure is that we are still there after five years, it's still costing us lives, and it's still costing us money.

The surge allowed de facto partition to occur on the ground, allowed ethnic cleansing of entire neighborhoods and towns, and allowed insurgents to enrich themselves off our bribary of them. We protected the Iranian Shia regime of al-Maliki against our natural allies, the Sunni Arabs, and allowed Iran to cement its hold on eastern Iraq and the southern oilfields.

You are right of course, but that beats the bad guys being able to crow that they drove out the great satan...

group inside of a country is waging war against another group inside of the same country?

warden:

group inside of a country is waging war against another group inside of the same country?

That isn't happening now...

that situation? And why do we care so much about what they crow about?

of thousands of people were killed, millions displaced, thousands of americans dead or wounded, over bragging rights.

Gangs?

"Detroit"

"Los Angeles"

etc.. etc.

Is USA a quagmire in a civil war?

Shouldn't you Libtards pull back and abandon USA and move to France, Iran or Venezuela?

;o)

warden:

group inside of a country is waging war against another group inside of the same country?

is what we call that...

unashamed way they put it on display

Ms Mikey is the worst...because she clearly has some capability. She just uses it for evil.

warden:

of thousands of people were killed, millions displaced, thousands of americans dead or wounded, over bragging rights.

When "bragging rights" can be leveraged into the recruitment of hundreds of thousands of terrorists...yes

invasion. He is the best recruitment tool they ever had