In 25 years, when cooler heads prevail, and the real story is completely laid bare - it will be accepted wisdom that GWB misled America into an unnecessary war.

--This is NOT the post to debate WMD and such 'everybody knew' crappola. This survey is reserved for the adults---

As an American, how responsible do you feel for the 4,000 American dead ?

Or for the billions of $'s wasted which our grandchildren will be paying back and has unecessarily endangered our economy?

This surrvey stipulates that 'the people' can have some effect on the actions of its govt. (if you 100% disagree with that assumption, give yourself a 0,)

The scale is 1 to 10.

This is an imaginative bunch so the criteria is left up to you.

Zuko gives himself a solid 5. Pretty piss poor efforts on the whole.

so I'd guess 0 since I don't believe that any way in hell Al Gore would have submitted our nation to that monumental fuckup.

I think you are wrong. I believe history will look favorably on President Bush, even though we do not look so favorably on him right now.

In 25 years, many of the hate filled Liberals who promulgated the lies and bullshit (No WMD, Bush lied, bad economy, can't win the war, etc) will be as dead as fried chicken.

The world will see democracies in both Afghanistan and Iraq and all the details will be lost.

Jack

I wnat some of that!

Interestingly, Obama took down his criticisms about "The Surge" from his web site today.

It was reported on MSNBC that he removed his statements about how the 'surge' would not work today.

If Iraq continues to stabilze..it could become a crown jewel of democracy over there,in a region, where we sorely need democracies and a stable government, just as Kuwait is.

By Obama removing his claim that 'The Surge' was not only 'destined to fail', but, as he also incorrectly claimed ,' it will cause more violence', he has all but admitted again ,that he was wrong.

for the clear eyed reality I am saddled with, for the polkadots and moonbeams that light yours.

Oh how I wish history will take a look at those picutres of Abu Grab and this from our own ARMY -

"U.S. Major Gen. Antonio Taguba, who led the Army's investigation into the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal in 2003, wrote there "is no longer any doubt" that the Bush administration committed war crimes in its treatment of suspected terrorists."

- and be as certain as you the world and history looks kindly on America.

They don't 'hate our freedom Jack', they hate having their balls hooked up to battery cables in the name of interogation.

But I still will respect your opinion - if you can tell me, when the next time a video of a G.I. being waterboarded, while having his legs beaten in mush, is released by the Taliban, "Hey, that's fair game, we do it, they have to do it for their security." Then you're at least honest about it.

We're not talking about abstract nation building philosophy, this is about an untouchable cabal making war in the name of the people of the United States of America.

z

Photos of conditions inside GITMO.

<link>

Never mind that many of the people being held there are probably not guilty of anything but being in the wrong place at the wrong time; I'm sure they don't mind being held prisoner without legal recourse just as long as the food is good.

if you really researched it ,Mr. Bones you would be aware that many of the detainees know that if ever released back to their country of origin the fate that awaits them would be far far worse from those they at one time willingly associated with.

You really are a moron as well as a pretentious fake aren't you?

I used to say "It wasn't my fault, since I didn't vote for the idiot, and I knew the war was a lie." But I've been convinced by one of the regulars here that I could have, and should have done more.

You understand these are the same people who gave you pictures of the Gulf of Tonkin incident?

because I haven't done anything but write about it on these boards and vote against George in 04, and against the GOP in 02, 04, and 06.

I'd have to do something on the scale of Ellsburg for it to be otherwise.

I was wondering if anybody could see they've been in anyway responsible for letting our government run wild.

I gave myself a five because I am working on the premise that anyone who never even bothered to write their congressman automatically gets 3 points.

Not holding a protest sign or attending an anti-war rally for a single second is 1.

Not a single letter of protest to their local newspaper should get 1.

That's my own points break down.

Of course voting for Bush in 2004 is an automatic 9. Disgraceful. People can justify their motivations, security, social policy, economics.....etc. But the bottom line, we were occupying a foriegn country when all our reasons for invading had been proved false.

But when they look back on it, I see no reason the American voter will get a clean pass on supporting a regime that killed over 100,000 people only because they thought it was a good idea.

Did the German people get a pass from history?

z

The American people themselves will be held accountable. Whether we think it's fair or not. The first step back is to be honest about the fact that 'we the people' have our names all over this war.

GWB gets to go home and let his mental illness progress. We are stuck with this thing. After all this carnage, you don't think your grand kid, studying this war in school won't want to ask "where were you in the war Gandpa?"

I voted against him and his party. I was against invading Iraq from the very beginning. The soldiers volunteered. The only true responsibility we all have is for the million odd dead and millions more maimed Iraqi citizens. For them we should all be very, very ashamed.