Married women had better contemplate divorce. Half of them will divorce. What, it should come as a complete surprise? As Meryl Streep said in Heartburn, "Marriage doesn't work. Divorce works." Her shrink replied, "Divorce is only a temporary solution," but I would reply, "Divorce works because the two of you have to negotiate the terms." Women owe it to themselves and their children to contemplate divorce.

and men the same for the same reasons...

would put herself before her children. What a fucking bitch you must be!!

Unless the husband is physically/mentally abusive, your staement is the readon that we are raising a generation of mindless, self-indulgent, obese, unresponsible children.

Thank you for validating what Tom Leykis has known all along. In today's society, what reason does man have to get married?

The OP put it poorly, but I think what she was trying to say was that in many cases divorce DOES happen, so it is better to have thought about the worst case scenario, so you aren't totally adrift if it comes about.

My husband and I are crazy about one another, and have no intentions whatsoever of getting divorced ever. However, we have DISCUSSED what we would do in that case, just like we have discussed what we would do in the event of one of our deaths.

Incidentally, my parents got divorced when I was 8, and his parents stayed together "for him". While neither scenario is ideal by a long shot, I think his childhood in a household full of hate and resignation screwed him up vastly more than my parents' splitting did me.

Freki

I have jewish friends who have their lovely marriage contract, their ketubah, on the wall. What's interesting is that it's basically a several-thousand-year-old prenup tradition: it lays out what the husband or his estate must pay to take care of the wife if they divorce or she is widowed. I guess they contemplate divorce and negotiated the terms!

in todays Amnerican society, what benefits are there for a man to get married or for that matter even share a residence with a woman?

Well, for my husband, there are several..

* I make more money than he does, so his standard of living increased when we moved in together

* I am a decent cook (in my humble opinion) so the food is definitely better than yesterday's cold pizza. Not that there is anything wrong with cold pizza.

* I am a good editor and proofreader, so his grades on big papers in school went up

* We spent all our time together even before we moved in, so there is less commuting

* I feed his cat if he takes off for the weekend

* Uh, sex on demand? I have never once turned him down.

* I make a mean mint julep

* I will get him a beer while he is playing video games, if he asks nicely, so he does not even have to pause

* I have good life insurance, so if I croak, he gets a fat check

I think these are all pretty decent perks. If I do say so myself.

Freki

Freki, it's useless to try to be reasonable with oicuateonetwo and evenstevens. They are fully convinced that men get the rawest of raw deals in marriage, and as a result, I sincerely hope that they are both blissfully single. Now, watch, oicuateonetwo will be very juvenile, and will insult me by turning my screenname into something that he considers clever but is really just stupid.

With respect to Ms. Tien and the drivel that she published, I would ask only this: is there no loyalty between husband and wife any more? I don't say bad stuff about my wonderful husband on an anonymous message board, even if sometimes I wish that he would do a better job of picking up his socks. For crying out loud, even if her marriage didn't suck before that article, it certainly will now. She broke the cardinal rule of relationships, which is: don't disparage your spouse in public.

I was divorced once, a very long time ago, from a man for whom I was totally unsuited. The day that I told my mother the truth about how I felt about my husband and my marriage was the day that I knew that my marriage was over. Once you say it out loud, you can't go back. Especially if you've said it outloud to a few hundred thousand people.

Just what I think.

Aw hell, I know, Emmajane. I just get more of a thrill out of being the rational one in a conversation than I get out of responding to oicuateonetwo in kind.

It seems to me that the key to a happy and harmonious marriage is...marry the right person...

Oh, and don't be freaking delusional going into it. Too many people, men and women both, go into marriage hoping it will fix issues, like some sort of magic wand. Then they hate it, because they are married to the same person they were dating before.

I am with you about airing dirty laundry in public. I have had friends tell me they can tell when I am really angry with my husband, because I don't mention him.

Freki

Freki:

It seems to me that the key to a happy and harmonious marriage is...marry the right person...

Freki

This. This right here. Marriage is great, and in spite of my other more cynical postings I am not only the marrying kind but I'm delighted by my wife. She likewise makes noises like she's delighted with me, occasionally going so far as to sound like she believes it when favorably comparing me to Christian Slater, even when he was young and hot.

The idiots who don't understand why a man would marry are looking at the wrong figures. We marry because it is a rewarding arrangement spiritually, emotionally, and fiscally when it works right. Sure, there's a 50% chance it won't work right, but that's actually pretty good odds compared to the certainty that being the 35 year old at the club is an embarassing state of affairs. Reliable nookie from someone who knows what we like and likes to do it that way is also the greatest boon to mankind, and proof that God loves us.

Marriage is great! So, too, is divorce. We used to have to institutionalize our wives when we were sick of them, or just abandon them outright, or get them hooked on laudenum to keep them out of the way. Now we can dissolve the marriage and both parties can try again and get another shot at happiness elsewhere. I admit that's still pretty cynical, but it's a happy cynicism.

My advice to those considering marriage is this - don't marry a person unless you can't bare the idea of not marrying them. It is not a contract to be entered into lightly.

Oh and Freki, my virtual high-five to your husband. Lucky bastard.

I am going into my marriage with the realistic expectation that it might not work out. In my view, marriage is mainly a financial arrangement and good because its good for raising well-adjusted children. We're going to delay having children two or three years, and if I see that she is not going to respect my individuality I will have no problem with cutting and running at that point. Better earlier, so that no children have to go through the pain of watching their parents divorce.

It seems to me that marriages are only successful today in the long term if spouses give each other large amounts of space to do their own thing and be their own person. Otherwise, bickering and contempt sets in very quickly. For people who live in more traditional environments where marriages are stabilized other social institutions like church, say, or the moral approbation of a small town, I think the situation is very different.

You are the exception to the rule. In general, men earn more than women in a marraige. Any arguement to the contrary is a crock.

Let's take you answers and put them into this general rule.

1) You earn more than your husband. Good for you! But again, exception, not the general rule.

2) What men can't cook? Men have and do. Ever heard of Bobby Flay? Or better, the money that men could save buying gold-digging women dinner or worse food in the house, men could go out to dinner every night! So much for the good cook theory.

3) If your husband can't correct his own papers, he's got an ADD problem or a serious learning disability. Or at the very least, isn't taking his education serious enough. By the way, If he is getting his degree, all you are telling me is that he will be supporting your lazy ass for the rest of his life once he gets it.

4) Spend all of that tiime together? This guy has no game at all!!! If you and him are under 25 Y/O you are fools given the track record of divorce.

5) Sex...Again, he has no game if he can't find it elsewhere.

6) Mint Julip? That's what the bartender is for!

7) Beer: SEE ABOVE

8) What, is he not working to not have insurance?

In the end, it cost the man far more to get married and support a wife in general than to remain single. And I haven't even mentioned kids or child support yet!

Men, if you really think about it, you're better off single. Just ask Greg Norman, he just had to fork over $103 million!!!

Ok, evensteven, I get it. You said "any man" but you weren't looking for a real life example, you just wanted to make generalizations. Let's look at your rebuttals.

1) If you want an exception, marry someone you find exceptional

2) He can cook. He's a pretty good cook, actually. But between work and school, it seems like the least I can do to make dinner while he is doing homework.

3) I am a quality inspector for a living. Trust me, the whole point of having someone else proofread your stuff is that they catch what you may have missed. He is finishing his degree this summer, and I am going back to school in the fall, so we will both be professionals making decent money in a few years.

4) I am sorry you have never dated a girl who you could really be friends with. My husband and I were best of friends before we started dating, we share the same interests and enjoy each other's company. If you think that is a bad thing, you are missing out. I am 27 and he is 35.

5) Yes, of course he could find it elsewhere, but why would you go out hunting for sex when all you have to do is leer charmingly at the person next to you?

6) Drinks at a bar are damn expensive, then you have to get home drunk, what a pain in the ass. Besides, all the pubs around here use mint syrup to make a julep, but I use real fresh mint. Much tastier.

7) He would obviously have to pause his video game to get a beer from the bartender, wouldn't he?

8) You see, the way life insurance works, someone has to DIE to collect. He has life insurance, but if he died, it would not really matter much to him how big that check was, would it?

The wonderful think about this new modern era is that he doesn't have to support me, because I support myself. If, gods forbid, we should ever spawn, I would still be expected to bring home my half of the bacon. I would go stir-crazy staying home all day anyway. Besides, it's not like you can afford to raise a family on one person's salary anymore!

Of all my friends, I only know three couples where one person works and the other stays home. In one case it is a woman working while her guy milks his inheritance for a break from a chef's 70 hour insane work week, in one case it is a man whose wife has a brand new infant, and in one case it is a man whose wife returned from Iraq with some serious PTSD.

Everyone else splits household finances equally.

Perhaps you should take off those goth-coloured glasses and look at REAL people. If all you are doing is polling the bitter 40 year old divorced men at the bar, you are not getting accurate information representative of the whole population.

Freki

Evenstevens, I am going to assume from your statement regarding Freki & her husband being under 25 that you yourself are under 25.

I am not under 25, and haven't been under 25 for approximately 17 years. I can assure you that most of your assertions, while perhaps unassailable at 25, are entirely inapplicable at the age of 40. First, the comments about Freki's husband's "game" are relevant only at an age where "game" still exists and you don't look completely ridiculous engaging in it. What is cute and charming when it is done by a 22 year old (i.e., trying to pick up a girl in a bar) is gross and pathetic when done by a 45 year old man (sorry, guys, but you know it's true). Especially since that 45 year old man is usually trying to pick up the same girls as the cute 22 year olds. At that point, the only girls that you will attract really WILL be gold-diggers, not responsible young women looking for a life partner.

In addition, under your formulation of life, you miss out on a family & kids, which, while unimportant to you, perhaps, as a young man may not be unimportant to you as an old one. The problem with living a life steeped in selfishness, which is what you are talking about, is that eventually you end up alone. Every relationship involves give and take. You are focused exclusively on what the average man "gives" in a marriage relationships without even thinking about what he "takes" from the relationship. And, you can't even begin to imagine that providing for someone elses needs over your own could be rewarding. It is.

And, by the way, I make a lot more money than my husband.